Rawze.com: Rawze's ISX Technical Discussion and more

Good morning. In desperate need of help. Have a 2010 Kenworth ISM 320V Mixer truck. Had a bunch of dpf issues. Had the filter cleaned. Worked great for 2 months. Then started needing a regen daily. Found the dpf pressure differential switch was bad (thus thinking it always needed a regen). Changed out switch, all codes/faults are cleared with no new but now have no boost whatsoever. Bought insite to try to figure it out better. When accelerating, we get a air fuel control derate. Mechanic got a max of about 4 psi of boost. There wasn't any loud noises etc, just pulled out of yard and half way down the road lost all power (no power now, revs slowly in idle etc).

Am completely lost as to what to do. Can't hear any turbo spooling but turbo was inspected with no noticeable problems. VGT was removed and calibrated with no faults. Just absolutely lost and was looking for any suggestions on data to look for in insite that could direct us towards a potential fix without tearing into engine.

Please help so my sleepless nights improve!

(07-18-2023 )Lakepremix Wrote: [ -> ]Good morning. In desperate need of help. Have a 2010 Kenworth ISM 320V Mixer truck. Had a bunch of dpf issues. Had the filter cleaned. Worked great for 2 months. Then started needing a regen daily. Found the dpf pressure differential switch was bad (thus thinking it always needed a regen). Changed out switch, all codes/faults are cleared with no new but now have no boost whatsoever. Bought insite to try to figure it out better. When accelerating, we get a air fuel control derate. Mechanic got a max of about 4 psi of boost. There wasn't any loud noises etc, just pulled out of yard and half way down the road lost all power (no power now, revs slowly in idle etc).

Am completely lost as to what to do. Can't hear any turbo spooling but turbo was inspected with no noticeable problems. VGT was removed and calibrated with no faults. Just absolutely lost and was looking for any suggestions on data to look for in insite that could direct us towards a potential fix without tearing into engine.

Please help so my sleepless nights improve!

It is the ENGINE that causes regen problems.. those cans just collect the aftermath, and the truck is completely incapable of cleaning itself properly by doing a forced or parked regen cycle.

First of all by the time you have regen issues, it is almost always due to the enigne's EGR system being severely neglected. A thorough EGR tune-up + having the cans baked, de-ashed, and flow tested ( a few hundred bucks to do if you take em off and to a stealers%it yourself) usually solves 90% of all regen issues. Also, after baking the can out, you need to perform a DPF replacement procedure in Insite. Otherwise the engine is not going reset its internal 'soot counters' that o0nly count up otherwise and throw faults.

Someone should also post a screen shot/pic of the regen history. What is the INHG values on the for right column in the regen history?>,. If it is averaging more than 3.0 or so, then the system is restricted and clogged up... there will be issues. Also look at how often it is regenning. If that truck is a local truck.. it is DOOMED!.. as it will not run on the highways long enough to do proper rolling/passive regnes every 4 or 5 hours of steady highway driving, and cuimmins has absolutely NO solutions to this very real and plaguing issue at all. They always blame the damn driver for their incapable system that is not compatible with local driving.

But in your case however (concrete trucks etc)...

Normally, I would tell someone to tough it out and fix what they have properly.. make the systems work and not neglect it .. but in a local trucking operation that does not run down the highways 5+ days a week for several hundreds of highway miles each day, this is not possible at all.

- Unfortunately, the proper solution is otherwise obvious for locally driven trucks (a de-mandate). This is because you will never keep those cans happy any ways unless you want to send the trucks on the highways for 400 - 500+ miles back and fourth about 2 times a week, wasting fuel and efforts just to let it regen properly on its own like the dumbarsse stealers$its would suggest.

. ehemm... but no one on here is going to officially tell you to do that, as it can be against some regulation on some countries. I PM'd you my number if you want more info regarding this, as there are wayy too many horror stories about people having that done and getting ripped off, or finding out they spent a $$ of moneys when they could have done it themselves.. or at least avoided the all too common bad programming plague out there too.
======

as far as the boost goes, that could be a number of things including severely neglected air cleaners, CAC problems, clogged up exhaust, or the ecm simply refusing to operate the turbo or other things properly due to derates, etc. Could also be a damaged turbo (turbine damaged, positioning problems once it is warmed up, etc.). What is the commanded and measured positions showing in Insite when it is acting up?.

And has anyone bothered to manually control the VG turbo (Calterm software is needed) and see if it chokes the engine down when commanded to 100% closed?. Likely not.

And what s the engine ser#?. so that I know what model engine it is exactly.

(07-18-2023 )Rawze Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-18-2023 )Lakepremix Wrote: [ -> ]Good morning. In desperate need of help. Have a 2010 Kenworth ISM 320V Mixer truck. Had a bunch of dpf issues. Had the filter cleaned. Worked great for 2 months. Then started needing a regen daily. Found the dpf pressure differential switch was bad (thus thinking it always needed a regen). Changed out switch, all codes/faults are cleared with no new but now have no boost whatsoever. Bought insite to try to figure it out better. When accelerating, we get a air fuel control derate. Mechanic got a max of about 4 psi of boost. There wasn't any loud noises etc, just pulled out of yard and half way down the road lost all power (no power now, revs slowly in idle etc).

Am completely lost as to what to do. Can't hear any turbo spooling but turbo was inspected with no noticeable problems. VGT was removed and calibrated with no faults. Just absolutely lost and was looking for any suggestions on data to look for in insite that could direct us towards a potential fix without tearing into engine.

Please help so my sleepless nights improve!

It is the ENGINE that causes regen problems.. those cans just collect the aftermath, and the truck is completely incapable of cleaning itself properly by doing a forced or parked regen cycle.

First of all by the time you have regen issues, it is almost always due to the enigne's EGR system being severely neglected. A thorough EGR tune-up + having the cans baked, de-ashed, and flow tested ( a few hundred bucks to do if you take em off and to a stealers%it yourself) usually solves 90% of all regen issues. Also, after baking the can out, you need to perform a DPF replacement procedure in Insite. Otherwise the engine is not going reset its internal 'soot counters' that o0nly count up otherwise and throw faults.

Someone should also post a screen shot/pic of the regen history. What is the INHG values on the for right column in the regen history?>,. If it is averaging more than 3.0 or so, then the system is restricted and clogged up... there will be issues. Also look at how often it is regenning. If that truck is a local truck.. it is DOOMED!.. as it will not run on the highways long enough to do proper rolling/passive regnes every 4 or 5 hours of steady highway driving, and cuimmins has absolutely NO solutions to this very real and plaguing issue at all. They always blame the damn driver for their incapable system that is not compatible with local driving.

But in your case however (concrete trucks etc)...

Normally, I would tell someone to tough it out and fix what they have properly.. make the systems work and not neglect it .. but in a local trucking operation that does not run down the highways 5+ days a week for several hundreds of highway miles each day, this is not possible at all.

- Unfortunately, the proper solution is otherwise obvious for locally driven trucks (a de-mandate). This is because you will never keep those cans happy any ways unless you want to send the trucks on the highways for 400 - 500+ miles back and fourth about 2 times a week, wasting fuel and efforts just to let it regen properly on its own like the dumbarsse stealers$its would suggest.

. ehemm... but no one on here is going to officially tell you to do that, as it can be against some regulation on some countries. I PM'd you my number if you want more info regarding this, as there are wayy too many horror stories about people having that done and getting ripped off, or finding out they spent a $$ of moneys when they could have done it themselves.. or at least avoided the all too common bad programming plague out there too.
======

as far as the boost goes, that could be a number of things including severely neglected air cleaners, CAC problems, clogged up exhaust, or the ecm simply refusing to operate the turbo or other things properly due to derates, etc. Could also be a damaged turbo (turbine damaged, positioning problems once it is warmed up, etc.). What is the commanded and measured positions showing in Insite when it is acting up?.

And has anyone bothered to manually control the VG turbo (Calterm software is needed) and see if it chokes the engine down when commanded to 100% closed?. Likely not.

And what s the engine ser#?. so that I know what model engine it is exactly.

Is it unusual to have no faults whatsoever? I've run it a bunch and haven't gotten any to come up. I'll get working on some of the other data.

(07-18-2023 )Lakepremix Wrote: [ -> ]...
Is it unusual to have no faults whatsoever? I've run it a bunch and haven't gotten any to come up. I'll get working on some of the other data.

by the time the check engine lights comer on and the regen starts complaining, it is too late for the EGr system. There are no 'dirty sensor' faults, the ecm is too dumb for that. You just have to keep after things once a year and keep the EGR and its sensors cleaned regularly. - No repair shop is going to do this for you at all, as they are not trained to do tune-up work to keep the engine healthy.
here is some references...
ref: http://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=7&pid=9#pid9

(07-18-2023 )Rawze Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-18-2023 )Lakepremix Wrote: [ -> ]...
Is it unusual to have no faults whatsoever? I've run it a bunch and haven't gotten any to come up. I'll get working on some of the other data.

by the time the check engine lights comer on and the regen starts complaining, it is too late for the EGr system. There are no 'dirty sensor' faults, the ecm is too dumb for that. You just have to keep after things once a year and keep the EGR and its sensors cleaned regularly. - No repair shop is going to do this for you at all, as they are not trained to do tune-up work to keep the engine healthy.
here is some references...
ref: http://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=7&pid=9#pid9

Thank you. One other question. Did an entire regen on it through insite and test tailed because inlet tempature was too low and exit temperature got too hi. What would cause low into dp and hi exiting?

(07-18-2023 )Lakepremix Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-18-2023 )Rawze Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-18-2023 )Lakepremix Wrote: [ -> ]...
Is it unusual to have no faults whatsoever? I've run it a bunch and haven't gotten any to come up. I'll get working on some of the other data.

by the time the check engine lights comer on and the regen starts complaining, it is too late for the EGr system. There are no 'dirty sensor' faults, the ecm is too dumb for that. You just have to keep after things once a year and keep the EGR and its sensors cleaned regularly. - No repair shop is going to do this for you at all, as they are not trained to do tune-up work to keep the engine healthy.
here is some references...
ref: http://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=7&pid=9#pid9

Filter was sent off and cleaned one month ago. Prior to that it was 4 years before that cleaning. Followed your instructions on adding parameters. Awesome video!

Thank you. One other question. Did an entire regen on it through insite and test tailed because inlet tempature was too low and exit temperature got too hi. What would cause low into dp and hi exiting?

(07-18-2023 )Lakepremix Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-18-2023 )Rawze Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-18-2023 )Lakepremix Wrote: [ -> ]...
Is it unusual to have no faults whatsoever? I've run it a bunch and haven't gotten any to come up. I'll get working on some of the other data.

by the time the check engine lights comer on and the regen starts complaining, it is too late for the EGr system. There are no 'dirty sensor' faults, the ecm is too dumb for that. You just have to keep after things once a year and keep the EGR and its sensors cleaned regularly. - No repair shop is going to do this for you at all, as they are not trained to do tune-up work to keep the engine healthy.
here is some references...
ref: http://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=7&pid=9#pid9

Thank you. One other question. Did an entire regen on it through insite and test tailed because inlet tempature was too low and exit temperature got too hi. What would cause low into dp and hi exiting?

The inlet temps should come up first once the doser activates. If it is the other way around then the temps sensors for the DPF may have gotten swapped around?. Unplug the DPF Outlet temp sensor and see if it gives you an 'Inlet' temp sensor fault or an 'outlet' temp sensor fault.

here is what a healthy regen looks like...
ref: http://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?t...6#pid75446

This look like a plugged filter?? And even when I do a forced regen the pressure differential isn't improving each time?

(07-18-2023 )Lakepremix Wrote: [ -> ]...When accelerating, we get a air fuel control derate. Mechanic got a max of about 4 psi of boost.
...

a 'fuel air control derate' is simply the engine limiting fuel because of too low of boost. It is a reaction to missing positive air pressure, and not a cause.

Even if the exhaust cans were partially clogged up, it would most likely make more than only 4 lbs of boost.

Disconnect the down-pipe before it reaches the first can under the truck and take it on a test drive around the block. See if the boost comes back. If it does then you know its an exhaust blockage (a severe one). If nothing changes then you know it is not the exhaust making low boost. If it does, then take pictures of the races of the DPF, DOC, etc. and post them here for opinions on what is wrong that caused them to clog up abnormally.

Is the engine consuming any coolant or oil>?.

ALSO look at the turbo rpm, commanded positions, and measured positions, when it is struggling like that and in that air derate. If that turbo is spinning really fast + has high measured position and only making 4 lbs of boost, and you have eliminated the exhaust not being the cause, then you need to eliminate the intake as being the cause.

Possibly has a very severe restriction in the CAC unit/intake (or a garbage after-market CAC unit was installed recently)?, or perhaps the CAC is full of dirt and dust, etc. from someone running it with a missing or failed air cleaner? ... or the turbo has a severe issue.

While your at it, check the CAC boots, maybe one of them is blown out on the back or under side?. Check the turbo exhaust housing to ensure it is not cracked on its back side. Do a CAC pressure test to 30 psi and ensure the CAC is not blown apart on one side.

Check the EGR piping.. Yank on it!.. check any boots. .. See if one of the boots or pipes pops loose. Not sure abut an ISM.. but on the ISX's the EGR pipe coming off the top of the egr valve likes to rot out from the inside and then pop loose.. cause severe low boost, because all the boost pressure is leaking out at that joint.

And if that thing had an intake butterfly (intake throttle device), some trucks/engines have them, .. make sure it is not closing or restricting intake air in any way.

You also did not mention any engine faults that might be re-occurring in the ecm after test driving it and seeing low boost. Fault codes can tell someone a lot about what is wrong.

If it comes right down to it NOT being a restriction in the intake or exhaust (or an EGR circuit leaking all the boost pressure out), the turbo IS turning a lot of rpm's and going to high commanded/measured positions, but not making any proper boost. Then that is a sign that the exhaust turbine for the turbo is damaged, or that the control arm in the turbo itself is slipping, etc.