+- Rawze.com: Rawze's ISX Technical Discussion and more (http://rawze.com/forums)
+-- Forum: Big Truck Technical Discussion... (/forumdisplay.php?fid=1)
+--- Forum: International Trucks Related Help (/forumdisplay.php?fid=69)
+--- Thread: 2011 Electrical fault gremlins (/showthread.php?tid=1962)
Pages: 1 2
2011 Electrical fault gremlins - Muchos189 - 07-29-2017
So I've got a 2011 ProStar and I've had it for about a year and a half. I purchased it with 450,000 miles on it and it's turned just over 600,000. It seems like I'm chasing one problem after another and as of late they are stacking up faster than I can afford to properly repair. There of been lots of little things like exhaust manifold bolts breaking off in the cylinder head which aren't complicated but a hassle to fix or the AC compressor failing for odd reasons. Not just the typical things like bad thermistors but weird ones like bearing failure on the compressor or a faulty compressor from Napa that sent debris through the system when it failed. I've actually got a laundry list of things I've had to do to the truck to keep things going but this one is just frustrating the heck out of me. There is also a small laundry list of issues with the truck that I can focus on later on but this one definitely would put me out of service if I tried to drive and a DOT officer took notice.
Recently I drove into some rain and every single one of my gauges started acting up and the low air pressure buzzer started going off because those gauges dropped to zero. Mechanically the truck ran fine and I still had turn signals, headlights, wipers, horn. To finish out my day I downloaded a Speedometer app. Once the rain quit and of the truck dried out everything went back to normal. The next day I drove into a light rain and it started doing it again except this time only about half the gauges failed. This time around after it dried out only the spa diameter, tachometer, oil temperature, water temperature, and oil pressure recovered. I disconnected the battery cables for about 30 minutes at the end of the day and nothing changed.
I had my wife take a quick video to show what it started doing shortly after we drove into the rain for the first time. Hopefully the link I will try to post works.
I know there is a body control module behind a kick panel by the clutch. I took the time to inspect it and all the pin connectors and of the harness and nothing appeared to be pulling out or shorting out or had moisture.
I went through all the bulkhead connectors at the firewall and was searching for signs of moisture infiltration. I wish I would've found an issue but I haven't yet so I cleaned and regreased with dielectric grease and reassembled all of them.
I don't know if the BCM is been damaged by a short somewhere in the wiring that I have yet to find. I would hate to just replace it without finding the root cause of the problem but I need to do something since I have compromised gauges with no engine brake, Cruise control, or interior lights that aren't on a switch.
Suggestions please and thank you very much for your input
Carlos Martinez (317)-414-3374
New owner op currently leased with HubGroup Trucking out of Indianapolis
RE: 2011 Electrical fault gremlins - Midland - 07-29-2017
Just went through a bunch of electrical issues on a Prostar. Make sure the big red wire from the 100 amp fuse area is in good condition and tight on both ends. International says the test for good ground on the BCM is to open the door and see of the dome lights come on. Lights on = good ground according to their manual. My experience is that it (BCM) is grounded even when unbolted from the truck body, so that means it would ground through various plugs. Find those grounds and make sure they are tight and not subject to water penetration. There are a lot of interior cab grounds behind/under the dash pretty much straight ahead from the headlight switch. More on the outside of the firewall at the same location. I don't recall what each 100 amp fuse (located on the outside firewall by the grounds) go to, but when one of mine was bad either the horn blew all the time or the wipers ran as soon as the key way on and the truck brake lights were always on. Those fuses look OK even with they blow, though I would suspect from your description that yours are OK but would still check the connections. There have been some cases of water leaking in on the BCM--my truck occasionally leaks from somewhere near where the visor bolts on which can't be good for a lot of things including the BCM. As I understand it, the BCM drives the IC (instrument cluster) and if you are loosing all your gauges including air pressure that points to a BCM issue and/or wiring between the BCM and IC. If you are only losing engine/speed information that could also point to data link from the engine which goes through the BCM before it goes to the IC. Sort of a ramble here, but work on all those wires right inside and outside the firewall directly above and ahead of the BCM.
RE: 2011 Electrical fault gremlins - Waterloo - 07-29-2017
Midland is spot on. Also, get under your truck, start at the battery box... Inspect every cable from the batteries to the starter, alternator, grounds, etc. I about shi#t my pants when I looked under mine when I was having electrical issues... The cabling to my starter had ten inches of bare copper from the connection at the starter back. I found missing jacket and bare copper on EVERY cable on my truck! I replaced roughly 100 feet of O to 4 ga cabling. This was FACTORY OEM cable.
Some of the issues with the AC compressor... Cummins recommends replacing the Damper every 500,000 miles, they do wear out. I had issues like you described on my accessories, I replaced the Damper and those issues went away. Another benefit, the motor ran much smoother, I could literally feel the difference in the seat of my pants.
Also, if you are having vibration issues, you may want to change out the cam shaft and crankshaft sensors. If you have an Inline reader with Insite, if they are going bad you should see a code. I had a God awful driveline vibration that came out of nowhere, and discovered I had 5 pings on my camshaft sensor. I replaced that sensor, driveline vibration went away. Just a thought, and hope it helps.
RE: 2011 Electrical fault gremlins - Rawze - 07-31-2017
I have seen a few prostars where the gauge cluster freaks out.
* First of all, replace ALL of the tiny little red fuses in the far left of the fuse panel. They don't go bad but the blades all tarnish after a year or 2 and create just those types of issues. I think mine were 5-amp each, and I replaed them all with 10-amp fuses. I mention this in detail here...
http://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=1514&pid=12861#pid12861
* Next is the fact that prostars are very very notorious for leaks at the joint where the top dome meets the cab. That groove just above the doors that runs all the way around the cab. Everyone swears they do not leak from there but they all do it. FILL THAT JOINT COMPLETELY -- 100% WITH SILICONE AND SEAL IT OFF 100%. It will take a good 3-4 caulking guns worth of silicone. SEAL IT OFF!, and especially well in the front area. This is where they all leak and moisture gets in. It then runs down wiring harnesses and down the left/right side under the plastic trim of the interior of the cab next to the windshield, and even drips and pours water into the gauge clusters, into your CB radio at the top sometimes, it follows wiring harnesses and then you get water into connectors and sometimes the fuse panel too. It can also short out a compass module and even if you don't have the compass module, it will short out the wiring for it that is tucked in behind everything. -- SEAL THAT DOME OFF !!! 100%!!!> ALL THE WAY AROUND!
[attachment=2967]
* LAST! -- GET A VOLTAGE GAUGE and put it in the dash somewhere. A USB charger with a voltage readout on it, -- anything. -- Here is one i like a lot --> https://amzn.to/2JcRSus
* When your alternator starts to get weak, it will spike voltage in the heavy rain. If it is doing this, it can destroy a lot of electronics including ECM, cab controllers, ABS controllers, Dash cluster, and a lot of other expensive things. Keep an eye on Voltage levels in the rain.
RE: 2011 Electrical fault gremlins - Muchos189 - 07-31-2017
Thank you to everybody that's offered advice. I get home on Tuesday and I'm going to spend the rest of this week using everyone's suggestions.
I have noticed a very random drip that falls out of the bottom speaker grlll for the cb. I'll get busy caulking the cab dome and swapping the fuses.
I'm really concerned permnant damage has happened to the body control module since only the speedometer, tach, water temp, oil pressure and temp are what has recovered after the truck dried out. I still have a total loss of rest of the gauges, cruise, engine brake, interior lights activated from the dash, trailer/tractor abs lights, check engine light.
The remaining gauges that work when its dry instantly fail if the truck is in even a small sprinkle while parked. It used to only flair up if driving in heavy rain, now it's instant.
I hope I find the root of the problem and when I do I will post the results.
RE: 2011 Electrical fault gremlins - Midland - 08-01-2017
More random thoughts. Make absolutely certain you have good voltage into the BCM. Big red wire that comes through the firewall and bolts into the top of the BCM. That wire comes from a battery source which is under your air cleaner and hidden by a red rubber cover about the size of a deck of cards. The fact you have this problem almost immediately when it rains certainly makes me suspicious of that area. Do the testing with a good DVOM and not a test light as you want to know if there are voltage drops and if so how much they are. It is interesting to me that you have all the engine data showing on your dash but no chassis information. As I had mine torn apart it became increasingly confusing how the data link(s) work with and apart from each other. Maybe someone else will elaborate on this, but it appeared to me that I had separate drivetrain, chassis, and radio J1939 data links but then they were still all tied together in a black bock about half the size of a pack of cigarettes, off at the right upper side of the instrument cluster (behind it, you can't see it until you pull the IC). Obviously I don't fully understand all the intricacies of how it all works together, but it is interesting that you have your drivetrain data but not your chassis data. I ended up purchasing Diamond Logic Builder from my dealer (with next day air) only to discover you can purchase it more or less instantly online. All I got through the dealer was a postcard with a key-code. You download the program online either way. $600 the first year, cheaper for consecutive, and you still need a Nexiq or Inline to plug into the network. However, International has all their own code system for the chassis and these codes don't show up on your dash (at least not on mine). So, I had codes for problems I observed and had repaired from pre-trips and observation, such as "left headlamp low voltage" (yep, the headlight was out), "actuator not working" (yep, no floor heat), etc. You can also view a page with the IC and via the software turn dome lights on and off, run gauges up and down, run the turn signals, etc. from your laptop. It will find your VIN and knows each option your truck has and will determine (at least by my observation) if each and every system is being seen by the network and/or functioning as intended. For me it was worth the money as I would have had to have my truck towed to the dealer (and then back) to get this information. You can probably get your dealer to read and print it for you for $100 or so, I've never had mine to the dealer. Diamond Logic also shows all the BCM plugs and where each wire is supposed to go or what it is supposed to feed. The other thing (really frustrating) that I discovered, and which was just discussed in another thread (about how the ambient temp sensor can shut down the AC system) is that things are tied together and dependent on each other that would make no sense to you or me, at least until we are aware of it. In other words, if you know of (or the Diamond Logic report shows) ANY components that are not reading or functioning properly, FIX THOSE FIRST! And keep all the components and fuses installed at all times as you trouble shoot. As mentioned earlier, I unknowingly blew one of the mega fuses (under the red cap under the air cleaner) when I took the dash out or something (be smarter than me and unhook your batteries first) which one day caused the horn to blow continuously and the next day made the wind shield wipers run constantly when battery voltage was applied to the BCM. Dealer was telling me to by a new BCM. It was only a fuse, and one that is not tied to the BCM nor does it seem to have any real impact on the BCM, but guess what. It affected various outputs from the BCM. Don't shove voltmeter probes into plugs as you will likely damage them, and take a few breaks. I just spent over a week working on similar stuff, it will make your head spin. Please keep us updated.
RE: 2011 Electrical fault gremlins - Muchos189 - 08-07-2017
Okay I spent all of last week going thru the truck and I tried every bit of advice everybody mentioned.
Sealed up the cab dome.
Checked voltage at the BCM power wire and it was good.
Replaced all the fuses mentioned
Removed and cleaned the 100A fuses and cleaned and greased the power connections.
Removed and cleaned all the positive/negative battery cables and frame grounds.
Added a 0/1 ground cable from engine block to frame.
Added a 0/1 ground cable from body to frame.
Ordered a voltage gauge for the aux port.
Haven't voltage checked the alternator wet yet but it's steady at 14.3v
Pulled off and physically inspected probably 90% of the entire harness looking for chafed or broken wires.
Pulled every weather pack plug or bulkhead connector and checked for corrosion or damaged pins then reinstalled with a healthy dollop of diaelectric grease.
Removed the BCM and carefully split it open to check for signs of swollen or burnt diodes, chips, or burns on the printed circuit board.
Good news if after I finished with all that the electrician fault is now gone and everything is functioning as it should.
Annoying news is I never found the root cause and nothing stuck out and bad so I don't know where the problem originated from.
Replaced the A/C compressor, receiver dryer, and flushed the entire system.
NAPA warrantied the compressor.
After pulling a 30 min vacuum I charged the system and with ambient temps at 66° the air coming out the vents was fluctuating between 45° when the engine fan was off and about 33° with the fan on.
I went to the dealership and picked up an ambient air temp sensor and replaced the one on my truck that's located approximately under the radiator. The warning light and upside down triangle are still on though and it showing a fault code for that sensor. When I get stopped tonight I'm going to take it back off and look closely at the plug and harness.
RE: 2011 Electrical fault gremlins - Waterloo - 08-07-2017
Put that temp sensor up by the driver side door. It should have a clip on it. I clipped mine on the plastic cowl, the windshield wiper cowl, off to the side, by the top door hinge area. Since doing that, my AC has worked pretty much flawlessly. That has not happened in years!
RE: 2011 Electrical fault gremlins - Muchos189 - 08-07-2017
Did you cut and extend the wires to reach up to the cowl or split the harness and pull the wires up from the front bumper?