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Overhaul kit & New OEM Head - Shotgun74 - 10-19-2018
Hey Guys looking at possibly doing an overhaul with a new OEM head on ISX Cummins 2010 in a 2012 Peterbilt. Where can I purchase a new OEM head & Overhaul kit. My local shop engine guy says he doesn't think he can get a new OEM head.
First a little back ground. The truck is a 2012 Peterbilt with a 550HP ISX 18 speed 3:36 rears. It currently sits with 910,757 miles @ 20,620 engine hours. It pulls heavy tanker in Northern IL, Southern WI, Eastern IA,. I use the PTO with hydraulic driven motors to unload. It was not spec'ed to do the local short haul work that it is now doing.
I was thinking of either doing a new truck purchase spec'd for the local work that I do now with the new X15 & a visit to Mr. Hagg for a dialed in tune. Or I was planning on a fresh complete rebuild with a tranny & gear ratio swap in the future. I was planning on reaching out to Mr. Hagg to have him do the work because I want quality work done. Plus that is where I went back in April 2017 to have the Milk Money Tune done. I was hoping however that this was going to be a couple years down the road. I think the engine has other plans.
The truck has been running great until Tuesday October 16, 2018. I started pushing coolant & took it to the local non dealer shop that I use for things I can't do, to have it checked out. They swore it was the pressure relief cap on the coolant tank because it was under pressure in their shop & wouldn't leak. I told them to put a new coolant tank on per their recommendation. I asked them after the new tank was on to let it sit overnight under pressure. They did & it dropped in pressure a little. They found a couple of hose clamps leaking & another small leak at the clamp on the trans cooler. They replaced the clamps with new & put it under pressure, let it sit all day & no leaks & very little drop in pressure. They felt it needed to be put to the test under working conditions because it wasn't leaking coolant anywhere. I asked about the head & again they said no sign of it leaking & no sign of coolant in the oil. I drove the truck home 19 miles pulling the trailer empty (LPG tanker). It had spit coolant out of the pressure cap again. I called my guy to let him know. He told me that they had filled it full with coolant & thought that it might spit some out adjusting itself for proper full level. He asked if I didn't mind to run it & see what it does.
I hauled a short load 100 miles each way. I smelled coolant en route to my first delivery but no low coolant signs. I used the engine brake when I exited off the interstate until I was going through the intersection. I gave it some throttle & it acted like it was drowning, so I put it in neutral & gave it some more fuel & it acted like it was still drowning for a second & then kicked out a huge plume off white smoke out the stack. I knew then that coolant was definitely getting into the exhaust side of things. It had done this before in the the last couple of months but nowhere near as bad as this time. I used the engine brake again repeatedly to finish the loaded miles & all the way back home & it didn't repeat the problem again. It performed as normal.
I was unloading when the low coolant alarm went off. I already had the hood open checking to see how much coolant if any it was losing. It had spit more out but not much. I released the cap a little & obviously the coolant level rose to where it kicked the alarm off. I tightened the cap & finished unloading. I put a drain line on the pressure relief cap stem, ran it down to the frame behind the drive side steer & tied it off. I drove the truck back home to the same local shop because they wanted to take another look at it. When I got there we could see in the drain line & on to the leaf spring, that it spit again but a very little amount. Plus no low coolant alarm on the 132 mile trip back to the shop & no engine brake problems.
We pulled the intake pipe & the egr cooler pipe, both were bone dry. I said well I think we know where this might be heading. They checked a few more things & called to let me know that they finally got the truck to spit on command every time it came off a high idle. They said either a head or gasket. I said with that many miles even though the engine hours aren't terribly high I was thinking of just doing a complete overhaul with a new OEM head. The engine guy called & said he didn't think he could get a new OEM head. I said I would check around as well.
I spoke with Mr. Hagg a little bit ago & he gave me an estimated quote & time frame with a new OEM head & overhaul kit so long as everything else internally on the engine checks out ok. I called my guy & he wants to give me a quote before I make a decision & asked when I get the quote from him to be straight & let him know if he's in the ballpark, lower or higher. I said I'd definitely do that. I should know this afternoon I hope.
I'm leaning toward Mr. Hagg regardless because of the liner & bore things that he does to the engine in his shop. Plus they did the professional tune so if there is any updating needing done they could get it done.
My guy is really good & stands by his work & is a stand up great guy & could possibly do the same work on the engine in his shop. However what little I know about his engine guy is just that. He has been with my local shop for about 8 months I think & worked previously with a local big dealer. He's also a good guy. However when he said he didn't think he could get a new OEM head I got nervous. I told him there was no way I was putting a reman head on a fresh overhaul.
Sorry for the long post. I just wanted to paint the best picture I could.
Thank you for your time on the phone Mr. Hagg. Always courteous & professional with your time.
Any advice? Or possible oversights on our end? Thank you for your time guys.
RE: Overhaul kit & New OEM Head - Rawze - 10-19-2018
Loosen the radiator cap a bit so it can't build pressure, zip-tie a rag over it so it can't fall off and bobtail it down to Mr. Hag to have it inframed.
Its either that, or later on, in about 200k miles, you will be saying to yourself, "I wish I had Hag do it".
RE: Overhaul kit & New OEM Head - Shotgun74 - 10-19-2018
I know you're correct Rawze. I'm just trying to honor my word & wait for the local guy to give me his quote. I think it'll most likely be in Georgia soon.
Thank you for your reply & this forum. It's really been helpful to me & countless others. I'm always directing guys to it, including my local shop.
RE: Overhaul kit & New OEM Head - schISM - 10-20-2018
Time is money and if your guy can’t get you a quote in 24 hrs. and the truck is sitting there making nothing it’s your money paying for his time wether he’s working on the truck or not. If your gonna keep the truck get it to Georgia and get a rental lined up.
If your spec’ing a new one grab a couple cases of antifreeze and hope it won’t let loose for the next 3 months because Peterbilt is backlogged at least that long and Kenworth even longer. Either way the LPG\NH3 season ain’t gonna wait around for ya so decisions have to be made.
By the way, I’ve got a very nice daycab with a jackshaft already on it that would look very nice in front of a bottle if your interested and I’m right in your neck of the woods too. PM me if your interested
RE: Overhaul kit & New OEM Head - Waterloo - 10-20-2018
(10-19-2018 )Shotgun74 Wrote: I know you're correct Rawze. I'm just trying to honor my word & wait for the local guy to give me his quote. I think it'll most likely be in Georgia soon.
Thank you for your reply & this forum. It's really been helpful to me & countless others. I'm always directing guys to it, including my local shop.
Get it to Mr Hagg's place, don't be a victim like I was, you have $60,000 to $80,000 cash just laying around to do two of these jobs? There is more to reassembling these motors than most shops know. Mr Hagg has this down to a science, the mess that my local authorized Cummins shop did was beyond scandalous. Mr Hagg saw it, and so did Rawze. It was Mr Hagg that figured out the first shop installed the wrong in frame kit, just by looking at the part numbers. He knows his stuff, and he knows how to properly assemble one of these motors so that bad things do not happen a year or two down the road. Like not using Loc-Tite 609 on the camshaft ends where the gears attach. And he will not install a bad gear like my shop did, or dry start the motor.
As far as new heads, they are plentiful, most reman heads from Cummins are new with a reman label on the box. The reason why is that they are disposable, not to be reused under any circumstance. At least I would not, especially for the cost difference.
Don't be a victim!
Rant off. ;-)
RE: Overhaul kit & New OEM Head - 5022 - 10-21-2018
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RE: Overhaul kit & New OEM Head - Waterloo - 10-21-2018
(10-21-2018 )5022 Wrote: {**Content removed by protection bot** - suspected advertising.}
Hope this helps.
I paid around $3400 down at Mr Haggs, new head in the crate fresh from Cummins. But that is still good price. Cheaper than the $5000 my last one cost. ;-)
RE: Overhaul kit & New OEM Head - Vanhvacr - 10-21-2018
(10-20-2018 )Waterloo Wrote:(10-19-2018 )Shotgun74 Wrote: I know you're correct Rawze. I'm just trying to honor my word & wait for the local guy to give me his quote. I think it'll most likely be in Georgia soon.
Thank you for your reply & this forum. It's really been helpful to me & countless others. I'm always directing guys to it, including my local shop.
Get it to Mr Hagg's place, don't be a victim like I was, you have $60,000 to $80,000 cash just laying around to do two of these jobs? There is more to reassembling these motors than most shops know. Mr Hagg has this down to a science, the mess that my local authorized Cummins shop did was beyond scandalous. Mr Hagg saw it, and so did Rawze. It was Mr Hagg that figured out the first shop installed the wrong in frame kit, just by looking at the part numbers. He knows his stuff, and he knows how to properly assemble one of these motors so that bad things do not happen a year or two down the road. Like not using Loc-Tite 609 on the camshaft ends where the gears attach. And he will not install a bad gear like my shop did, or dry start the motor.
As far as new heads, they are plentiful, most reman heads from Cummins are new with a reman label on the box. The reason why is that they are disposable, not to be reused under any circumstance. At least I would not, especially for the cost difference.
Don't be a victim!
Rant off. ;-)
just curiously, how much do MrHagg charge for labor on an inframe of an isx15 cm2350 2012 enginee nowaday?
thanks you,
RE: Overhaul kit & New OEM Head - Waterloo - 10-21-2018
(10-21-2018 )Vanhvacr Wrote:(10-20-2018 )Waterloo Wrote:(10-19-2018 )Shotgun74 Wrote: I know you're correct Rawze. I'm just trying to honor my word & wait for the local guy to give me his quote. I think it'll most likely be in Georgia soon.
Thank you for your reply & this forum. It's really been helpful to me & countless others. I'm always directing guys to it, including my local shop.
Get it to Mr Hagg's place, don't be a victim like I was, you have $60,000 to $80,000 cash just laying around to do two of these jobs? There is more to reassembling these motors than most shops know. Mr Hagg has this down to a science, the mess that my local authorized Cummins shop did was beyond scandalous. Mr Hagg saw it, and so did Rawze. It was Mr Hagg that figured out the first shop installed the wrong in frame kit, just by looking at the part numbers. He knows his stuff, and he knows how to properly assemble one of these motors so that bad things do not happen a year or two down the road. Like not using Loc-Tite 609 on the camshaft ends where the gears attach. And he will not install a bad gear like my shop did, or dry start the motor.
As far as new heads, they are plentiful, most reman heads from Cummins are new with a reman label on the box. The reason why is that they are disposable, not to be reused under any circumstance. At least I would not, especially for the cost difference.
Don't be a victim!
Rant off. ;-)
just curiously, how much do MrHagg charge for labor on an inframe of an isx15 cm2350 2012 enginee nowaday?
thanks you,
He is right around $4,000 labor, but DO NOT quote me, but still well worth it, trust me on that. I'm still licking my wounds by doing my in frame at Rawze's house. Mr Hagg is your best bet. And it will be done correctly with a warranty.
My wounds are physical, not financial. Just to clarify.