+- Rawze.com: Rawze's ISX Technical Discussion and more (http://rawze.com/forums)
+-- Forum: Big Truck Technical Discussion... (/forumdisplay.php?fid=1)
+--- Forum: ISX Related Help (/forumdisplay.php?fid=68)
+--- Thread: Fuel Shutoff Solenoid (/showthread.php?tid=5225)
Pages: 1 2
Fuel Shutoff Solenoid - Tmaj12k - 10-25-2019
I’m having an issue. Got a 2010 Prostar with a Cummins ISX in it. My truck wasn’t shutting off after I turned the key to the off position. It sputters for about 10 seconds smokes out the stack then turns off. I got a quick scan done and the fuel shutoff solenoid came up. I replaced the solenoid itself. That’s actually all that comes in the box. New seals too. I cleaned the parts inside and used new seals. Truck still doing the same thing. I have a couple of questions. First, does it matter that I replaced my solenoid with an aftermarket brand Interstate McBee instead of the Cummins brand. Second, do I need replace all of the internal parts as well? Lastly, is there a reset procedure after installation? Does the code need to be reset for the fix to be complete or should the new solenoid work right away? Or do I have a different problem? Even when starting the truck up, it spins for a bit before firing up. Once it does start, it shakes for a while before smoothing out. Anybody have any ideas of what’s going on?
RE: Fuel Shutoff Solenoid - Rawze - 10-26-2019
i have seen lots of 870 and 871's sputter after key is off. The problem is 2-fold actually...
First of all, you have a leaky shutoff solenoid. - BUY A GENUINE CUMMINS ONE AND GUTS AND STOP NICKEL-AND DIMING THE DAMN THING AND WASTING YOUR MONEY AND TIME!!!!!!!
Next: Is that your metering actuator(s) are also leaking and are going bad. -- while your at it, you need to do an injector leak test...
-- FIX BOTH PROBLEMS AND DO THE LEAK TEST WHILE YOUR AT IT!!!
-- REPLACE ANY LEAKING INJECTORS TOO!!! THEY ARE TYPICALLY THE PRIMARY CAUSE OF ACTUATORS GOING BAD!!!
-- FIX THE GODDAMN THING THE RIGHT WAY, YOUR FUEL MILEAGE WILL THANK YOU AND YOUR ENGINE WILL TOO!
USE OEM CERTIFIED PARTS FOR YOUR ENGINE AND ITS CRITICAL COMPONENTS!
It takes BOTH the shut-off solenoid leaking + one or more metering actuators going bad for the engine to sputter like that after the key switch is turned off.
RE: Fuel Shutoff Solenoid - Tmaj12k - 10-26-2019
That’s for such a quick response Rawze! So here’s the thing. We swapped out all 4 actuators with some used ones at the shop from a different truck. We also found that the #1 injector had a broken nozzle. We changed that as well with a new one. Same thing is happening. So I’m left thinking either those actuators were no good or another injector (s) is bad. Just to fill in the story, I just got this truck back on the road. The truck had been sitting for a while being overhauled. Injectors were bought months before they were actually installed. I’m surprised the nozzle was broken on the one we found. Once the truck is running, I’m getting all the signs of bad actuators you posted in another thread. Leaning towards just replacing all of them brand new and that shutoff solenoid. They’re pricey so I’ll have to do them 1 or 2 at a time.
RE: Fuel Shutoff Solenoid - Waterloo - 10-26-2019
How did the injector nozzle break if it was new? When they installed the injectors did they torque them to 8 ftlb, or 8 nm? May want to inspect the rest of the injectors.
RE: Fuel Shutoff Solenoid - Tmaj12k - 10-26-2019
I don’t have a clue how it could’ve broke. Before I came across Rawze’s video about the fuel shutoff solenoid, I thought that the truck was just out of timing from the overhaul. The smoking had me puzzled. The shop ran a scan and we got fault codes for vgt actuator 2387 and injector metering rail 2 pressure 2551. We assumed the #2 injector was bad. We took the turbo off and I had it checked out. The turbine inside was damaged. I dealt with Turbo Solutions in south Jersey. They said the damage came from a foreign object hitting it. They rebuilt the turbo and we put it back on. Since we had the engine open the timing was checked. We verified the injector timing was set at 4 6, changed numbers 1 and 2 injectors, changed the shutoff solenoid and the same thing is happening. I’m thinking Rawze has me in the right direction with the above video on the fuel actuators.
RE: Fuel Shutoff Solenoid - Rawze - 10-27-2019
Let me put it another way...
My engine, the shutoff solenoid went bad about 2 years ago. - I removed the guts for it to get me off the side of the road and home. - I never put the guts back into it and don't even have a working shutoff solenoid any more on my truck. It is disconnected and its guts are still missing to this day. - Mine is like that, but in all reality, I would not recommend others do this beyond troubleshooting or getting you home in an emergency, then fixing it right, simply for safety reasons.
With the guts removed, to this day, my engine shuts off right away without any issues or sputtering whatsoever. It runs the same way it did exactly. The ECM stops firing the solenoids like it should and they are not leaky. If they were leaky, the engine would sputter on not shut off properly.
=========
Another clue to internally-leaky fuel actuators that happens sometimes is when the engine is idling, it will rev up a few rpm on its own,.. drift up in rpm as the metering actuators get more and more leaky. - Seen that a lot on people's trucks too. Idle set to 600 or 700 rpm,.. but after a while, the thing is idling 800 or higher sometimes, has drifted up on its own. Truck gets harder and harder to shift too as it gets worse because the engine does not rev down as fast as it should.
-- Again, as a related issue, .. do a leak test and ensure it passes on all injectors too. Cylinder blow-back into the fuel system from leaky injectors can cause sputtering and other ghost and unstable fuel related problems.
RE: Fuel Shutoff Solenoid - Tmaj12k - 10-27-2019
That’s incredible that your truck still ran with no issues after removing the guts of the solenoid. Where do you get new internal parts for the solenoid when replacing?? I don’t think it comes in the box. When I look online and even with the aftermarket one that I bought, none of them come with new internal parts. Just new gaskets. Another thing I did when I changed to the Interstate McBee. There is a little flimsy piece in the guts that’s bent. I was unsure if it was supposed to be that way so I flattened out a little. Could that be causing an issue?
I wrote down the part number for the tool you used in the video to perform the leak test. I’m going to order it and do it myself. When so many weird things start to happen it’s hard to trust what you’re being told by a shop.
RE: Fuel Shutoff Solenoid - ynot - 10-27-2019
Yes the flat washer is supposed too be bent it acts like a spring.
The fuel shut off is redundant in the way it shuts off fuel like rawze hinted to. When you shut the key off it kills power too the keyon pin at the ecm which kills the actuators an in turn kills the motor cause the injectors stop getting fuel.
RE: Fuel Shutoff Solenoid - DosGatos - 10-27-2019
(10-27-2019 )Tmaj12k Wrote: That’s incredible that your truck still ran with no issues after removing the guts of the solenoid. Where do you get new internal parts for the solenoid when replacing?? I don’t think it comes in the box. When I look online and even with the aftermarket one that I bought, none of them come with new internal parts. Just new gaskets. Another thing I did when I changed to the Interstate McBee. There is a little flimsy piece in the guts that’s bent. I was unsure if it was supposed to be that way so I flattened out a little. Could that be causing an issue?
I wrote down the part number for the tool you used in the video to perform the leak test. I’m going to order it and do it myself. When so many weird things start to happen it’s hard to trust what you’re being told by a shop.
the thin bent thing is supposed to be bent. has to be installed in the right order and acts as a spring. image from cummins quickserve.
[attachment=5640]