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+--- Thread: DD15 emissions system maintenance (/showthread.php?tid=8328)
DD15 emissions system maintenance - Redland1 - 07-19-2022
My brother owns a Western Star 4900 hydrovac truck that has a DD15.It has check engine lights come up all the time and goes into a 55 mph lean mode.He doesn’t have the software or hardware to check out the codes and honestly I don’t even know what he would need since I have a Cummins.From what I have read on it on here DD tuning is garbage and should be avoided.So is there emission system tune up’s for it like Cummins? And if there is are there any videos like the one Rawze does for Cummins?
RE: DD15 emissions system maintenance - tree98 - 07-19-2022
I don't know the first thing about a Detroit but I'm sure they have a bunch of sensors like cummins. He should start by replacing those.
RE: DD15 emissions system maintenance - Bengy88 - 07-19-2022
Do you have a nexiq or noregon adapter and a laptop?
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RE: DD15 emissions system maintenance - Colter - 07-19-2022
The most common Detroit aftertreatment fault is Nox conversion efficiency too low, without spending copious amounts of money on a laptop + link + software the next best tool would be the Nexiq Bluetooth mini or something like that, you can read everything but cant clear anything.
Sensor failures are not as common as wiring issues in the DD engines but many times you see sensors blindly thrown at an issue. Repetitive sensor failures (temp, Nox, etc) can be EGR cooler failure which is checked by removing and inspecting EGR piping for coolant .
Nox conversion codes rarely are a sensor issue but more likely DEF filter breakdown and system restrictions due to material floating around. There is a RS Service kit for the Detroit's, (sometimes conversion codes need a new pump and/or injector as well) its about a 3-8 hour ordeal to replace screens and filters in the RS kit. Not a bad thing to do every once in a while or simply once and then REPLACE DEF FILTERS ANNUALLY (regardless of engine make )
The conversion code issue is pure speculation but is the most common issue seen on them and miserable to solve as they will almost always pass the tests while stationary and reoccur once under load.
RE: DD15 emissions system maintenance - Bengy88 - 07-19-2022
Yea what that guy said. There isn’t gonna be a common go to or just cleaning a bunch of stuff that’s gonna fix your problem, without the proper equipment you are pissing in the wind. Nothing about a dd engine is simple, nothing about the way they work is simple, and they will never measure up to a Cummins. They are a total pain in the ass to figure out most problems with but with the proper equipment I’m sure colter or myself, maybe a few others here could help you figure this out.
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RE: DD15 emissions system maintenance - Redland1 - 07-19-2022
(07-19-2022 )Bengy88 Wrote: Do you have a nexiq or noregon adapter and a laptop? If so I’ll help you with what you need and help you figure your brothers problem out
I have the laptop but only Insite.If he buys the Nexiq where do we get the software?
RE: DD15 emissions system maintenance - Rawze - 07-19-2022
(07-19-2022 )Bengy88 Wrote: ... There isn’t gonna be a common go to or just cleaning a bunch of stuff that’s gonna fix your problem
...
That is not really true.. MANY OF THE EMISSIONS SYSTEMS PROBLEMS on ALL BRANDS OF ENGINES are from the engine. The engine makes the soot, not the exhaust-cans. The engine is what creates most all the things that the emissions systems complain about.
An EGR tune-up will do one some wonders. Ya just have to take things apart and clean them out, replace old sensors that read wrong, etc. - That is the place to start with it every couple years or so. It is not that different from the red engines.. the EGR circuits get dirty, clogged, and the sensors read wrong after half a million miles of neglect.. it is that simple.
Also, that after-treatment system was designed by cummins. The NOx sensors, although slightly different will suffer from the same fast as they do on cummins engines. - they will start to read incorrectly and get weak after 250k miles or so.. and then the system complains all the time.
As well.. the SCR can loose its potency if any sort of moisture has gone thru it, washing it out of precious metals, etc. They get weak no matter what over time due to this, just from condensation, etc.. so also, ensure there is no coolant seeping from the engine or egr cooler, etc.. that can make the problems worse.
RE: DD15 emissions system maintenance - Bengy88 - 07-20-2022
(07-19-2022 )Rawze Wrote:(07-19-2022 )Bengy88 Wrote: ... There isn’t gonna be a common go to or just cleaning a bunch of stuff that’s gonna fix your problem
...
That is not really true.. MANY OF THE EMISSIONS SYSTEMS PROBLEMS on ALL BRANDS OF ENGINES are from the engine. The engine makes the soot, not the exhaust-cans. The engine is what creates most all the things that the emissions systems complain about.
An EGR tune-up will do one some wonders. Ya just have to take things apart and clean them out, replace old sensors that read wrong, etc. - That is the place to start with it every couple years or so. It is not that different from the red engines.. the EGR circuits get dirty, clogged, and the sensors read wrong after half a million miles of neglect.. it is that simple.
Also, that after-treatment system was designed by cummins. The NOx sensors, although slightly different will suffer from the same fate as they do on cummins engines. - they will start to read incorrectly and get weak after 250k miles or so.. and then the system complains all the time.
As well.. the SCR can loose its potency if any sort of moisture has gone thru it, washing it out of precious metals, etc. They get weak no matter what over time due to this, just from condensation, etc.. so also, ensure there is no coolant seeping from the engine or egr cooler, etc.. that can make the problems worse.
I agree that the egr systems need to be cleaned on every engine and that soot does build up in every engine, and the engine does create 80% of problems with the aftertreatment side. All I was saying is chances are that he will not just go to his engine and start cleaning things and fix his problem. He might fix what caused his problem, and he definitely will prevent future problems. I doubt cleaning the egr system will repair a bad temp sensor, a leaking def doser, or contaminated def. Also These engines give a lot of injector and egr valve issues, even a few one box issues that just programming will fix. All I’m saying is you can clean all you want but even if there is a problem that cleaning will fix you still need to know what was damaged and causing the service aftertreatment message. Without dddl, or even jpro or nexiq etechnician you are fighting a ghost just like with any other engine. In my opinion it’s always easier to find what’s damaged and then what caused the damage. It’s crazy to look for what caused the damage without even knowing what’s damaged.
RE: DD15 emissions system maintenance - Rawze - 07-20-2022
(07-20-2022 )Bengy88 Wrote: ...
I agree that the egr systems need to be cleaned on every engine and that soot does build up in every engine, and the engine does create 80% of problems with the aftertreatment side. All I was saying is chances are that he will not just go to his engine and start cleaning things and fix his problem. He might fix what caused his problem, and he definitely will prevent future problems. I doubt cleaning the egr system will repair a bad temp sensor, a leaking def doser, or contaminated def. Also These engines give a lot of injector and egr valve issues, even a few one box issues that just programming will fix. All I’m saying is you can clean all you want but even if there is a problem that cleaning will fix you still need to know what was damaged and causing the service after-treatment message. Without dddl, or even jpro or nexiq etechnician you are fighting a ghost just like with any other engine. In my opinion it’s always easier to find what’s damaged and then what caused the damage. It’s crazy to look for what caused the damage without even knowing what’s damaged.
Then your statement above was a bit mis-leading. As I read it ...,. It implied that Detroits in general do not need regular maintenance of the egr systems. That, or it implies to not bother with any of that stuffs.. because it won't fix anything. That is how it kind of reads. - So in contrast, you clarified this. Thanks. ... It is nice to see that you are an the same page about things as I am, and I completely agree that in this persons particular case.. maybe it will not stop the immediate faults, but to suggest to not bother with any, likely needed, engine maintenance, was why I pointed it out.
(for truck owners who come along in the future reading this)...
That stuffs DOES MATTER.. and DOES NEED TO BE DONE regularly... and if it has not been done.. then it needs to be included, right along with solving any immediate issues, so that problems do not come back. There is nothing worse than making the problem go away just to end up on the side of the road again in 2 weeks and your late on a load.. yet again.
(my rant against the OEM's)...
--- and THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT IS WRONG with these goddam$mn OEM repair shops!. - They put out the fire only enough to get the check engine lights to go out and shove someone out the door!. Never addressing the underlying causes of anything any more.. and then the truck owner suffers all the wasted time, moneys, missed loads, customers that are piss#edd off due to frequent break-downs, and repeating failures that mostly can be avoided by simply taking the time to do the extra steps to actually "fix and service everything related" along with the initial issue.