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2003 volvo isx15 cm570 issues - Magnat1976 - 11-29-2023
Hello to everyone
I like to ask your opinion or advise about my truck..
I have 2003 volvo vnl with 450 hp...isx5 cm570, 13 speed eaton for 6 years with 840k miles..now
I am experiencing weird issues especially when it's getting cooler, fall,winter times..
Feels that I am loosing power,especially under the acceleration on high gears 1100-1300 rpm..feels vibration,lack of power and when it's cold engine sounds like it's still cold..and it's 2or 3 winter like that.I replaced both coolant thermostats last season
Before truck ran perfectly, I hauled even up 100k pounds with no issues,and now even empty trailer I am pulling such a loaded.
Truck is at top shape,maintened ,no oil consumption, boost 23-25 at acceleration, no faults,no codes,everything OEM..overhead done,damper, engine brake rebuilted,
I greatly appreciate your advises,any ideas?
ECM can cause issues,because of age?without any codes?
Injector?cm570 never heard that they fail
Boost sensor replaced..
What else ?
RE: 2003 volvo isx15 cm570 issues - Rawze - 11-29-2023
(11-29-2023 )Magnat1976 Wrote: Hello to everyone
I like to ask your opinion or advise about my truck..
I have 2003 volvo vnl with 450 hp...isx5 cm570, 13 speed eaton for 6 years with 840k miles..now
I am experiencing weird issues especially when it's getting cooler, fall,winter times..
Feels that I am loosing power,especially under the acceleration on high gears 1100-1300 rpm..feels vibration,lack of power and when it's cold engine sounds like it's still cold..and it's 2or 3 winter like that.I replaced both coolant thermostats last season
Before truck ran perfectly, I hauled even up 100k pounds with no issues,and now even empty trailer I am pulling such a loaded.
Truck is at top shape,maintened ,no oil consumption, boost 23-25 at acceleration, no faults,no codes,everything OEM..overhead done,damper, engine brake rebuilted,
I greatly appreciate your advises,any ideas?
ECM can cause issues,because of age?without any codes?
Injector?cm570 never heard that they fail
Boost sensor replaced..
What else ?
Fisrt of all, why are you torturing your engine at such low RPM?... that engine should be pulling between 1500-2000 rpm (1650 being the center point) when climbing hills and during heavy loads. Your beating the liners out of it and torturing it to9 an agonizing death with such low rpm al the time!.
Also when is the last time you adjusted the overhead and followed it up with a proper injector leak test on it?.
ref: http://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=3464&pid=29828#pid29828
When is the last time you did any sort of tune-up work to it? (replacing intake and exhaust pressure sensors, cam inspection, etc.etc.?.
These red engines are NOT drive and forget about them!.. they need regular care and they absolutely do not need to be tortured in the way your post says there as well. ISX's have shorter connection rods vs other brands and absolutely HATE low rpm's.
RE: 2003 volvo isx15 cm570 issues - Pd6cas2 - 11-29-2023
I agree with Rawze , shift between 1650 or 1750 depending on load and Hill , sometimes just stay in gear longer.
I have a 2001 CM570 , you mentioned colder temps ..!Im from MN and know the cold does slow these engines down, I've run -38 to -45 and with proper care, No problems ..
Ive replaced every sensor on that engine, especially Cam& Crank they made a world of difference. I have 3.1 million and 2 overhauls..
Being Your truck 2003 ,.. Fuel lines would be my First replacement, then All sensors.
Pull valve cover off and inspect all rollers cam etc..
Overheard ..
Ive also replaced main engine harness and ECM ....
Your in the right place for help..
But Rawze doesn't have a bullshit button' he will call out shi#t ASAP..
RE: 2003 volvo isx15 cm570 issues - Magnat1976 - 03-12-2024
Hello People,it's been a while,how you doing?
I like to ask your opinion..I been working and spending a lot of money on my truck...I like my old truck and miss how it ran before..
If I haven't spend so much money I would change to newer one,but I also don't like modern trucks...with Def and cheap machinery.
What I've done recently all suspension, tires everything in top shape..
On engine..now its has 860 k.300k after cummins dealer overhaul,I bought just after overhaul,cummins did everything everything except injectors...I have paperwork..
I replaced all sensors,all fuel solenoids (brand new),all fuel check valves,engine harness...and truck still acting really weird..intermittent...power loss,vibrations,sometimes more blow by,more smoke...
I was about to replace injectors,turbo..but this week,I discovered...when I disconnect power cable from batteries truck runs differently most likely as it use to be..softer,smoother and powerful..but for a day or two..
I suspect it could be engine ECM...but absolutely no fault codes...
Is it possible that Emc,software, hardware malfunctioning, with no warnings?I imagine it's 21 years old
I am about to buy the oem ecm,for my truck only rx ,no new ecm available and it's 2500$...+ plus programing..been thinking to look for used one,but who knows,it can be same
Please share your experience and thoughts. appreciate in advance
RE: 2003 volvo isx15 cm570 issues - hhow55 - 03-12-2024
Have you replaced the fuel lines?...........The fuel lines have an expected lifespan of 8 yrs, and are known to collapse internally. I once had a n14 that was overhauled and sounded like crap afterwards. Once fuel lines were replaced engine sounded and performed as it should.
RE: 2003 volvo isx15 cm570 issues - Rawze - 03-12-2024
(03-12-2024 )Magnat1976 Wrote: Hello People,it's been a while,how you doing?
I like to ask your opinion..I been working and spending a lot of money on my truck...I like my old truck and miss how it ran before..
If I haven't spend so much money I would change to newer one,but I also don't like modern trucks...with Def and cheap machinery.
What I've done recently all suspension, tires everything in top shape..
On engine..now its has 860 k.300k after cummins dealer overhaul,I bought just after overhaul,cummins did everything everything except injectors...I have paperwork..
I replaced all sensors,all fuel solenoids (brand new),all fuel check valves,engine harness...and truck still acting really weird..intermittent...power loss,vibrations,sometimes more blow by,more smoke...
I was about to replace injectors,turbo..but this week,I discovered...when I disconnect power cable from batteries truck runs differently most likely as it use to be..softer,smoother and powerful..but for a day or two..
I suspect it could be engine ECM...but absolutely no fault codes...
Is it possible that Emc,software, hardware malfunctioning, with no warnings?I imagine it's 21 years old
I am about to buy the oem ecm,for my truck only rx ,no new ecm available and it's 2500$...+ plus programing..been thinking to look for used one,but who knows,it can be same
Please share your experience and thoughts. appreciate in advance
You are complaining about a lot of things.. but you are also wasting moneys by blindly throwing parts at a 20+ year old truck, and fighting against that particular brand of truck's known problems too.
======================
#1....
Your post implies heavily that someone is wasting a whole heck of a lot of moneys and throwing parts at it like the stealers$its do, rather than troubleshooting things properly and spending moneys more wisely.
======================
#2...
Buying into a truck that a steaklers$it had inframed was a huge mistake!. They are notorious for not rebuilding an ISX engine to extend its life by one bit, and most of the time you will NOT get that next million miles out of it without something failing all over again. Here is how it should have been done, and no OEM-trained stealers$it is going to any of it,...
ref: http://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=8105&pid=70606#pid70606
======================
#3...
You post also Leads to more questions...
** IS the programming 100% factory? . - I can tell you that those older engines and the factory programming has some software bugs in them that can make them run like crap or have measurably reduced power, - And then suddenly run better after fiddling with it, batteries, etc. or simply shutting engine off for 5-10 mins. Then after the restart, it will have full power and suddenly run good again.
- There is one very well known bug in the factory programming/ecm that the red engine maker HAS NEVER FIXED towards this on the CM570/870/871's. It makes the engine derate to only 70% or so of power or so and run rougher until you stop the engine and reset the key-switch.
Its caused by detecting a problem in the fueling/timing actuators when they are borderline faulty, but not enough to actually throw the fault yet. The result is that it derates the engine to exactly 250mg/stroke fueling (a partial derate) and will not go away until you re-start engine. it also does NOT throw any kind of the fault in the dash, nor will it be seen using troubleshooting software outside of the fueling being capped off at exactly 250mg/stroke during hard acceleration. This issue typically starts out by happening once in a while,.. and slowly gets worse and worse over time until is ends up happening constantly, eventually it being a permanent thing.
- I had someone come over here once where their truck had this issue like this. No one could find the issue, not even the red engine makers OEM shops. It had finally gotten so bad, that it was in an almost permanent state like this. It was bad enough for me to test for, and find it, so now I include a fix for this particular bug in the @m*m^2 programming these days to prevent it from happening on the CM871 engines. - The red engine maker has never fixed this issue in their factory programming for these older engines with IFSM fuel systems on them.
ASIDE FROM THIS .... ITS A VOLVO!. THEY HAVE THEIR OWN COLLECTION OF SIMILAR GREMLINS THAT ONLY VOLVO TRUCKS HAVE ISSUES WITH TOO!.
Almost all volvo truck owners that I know of, will typically complain over and over about this exact scenario where the engine running like crap, .. and then it suddenly runs good again after truck sits a few days, etc. .. and/or shutting it off and doing things like resetting batteries, etc.
-= IT IS A VOLVO THING.. AND NO OTHER BRAND OF TRUCKS TEND TO DO THIS SO MUCH!. ==-. And its usually caused by the electrical system/alternator on them being crappy + it is heavily suspected that the VOLVO dash and other components/signals interfere/screw with the engine!.
** VOLVO trucks in particular are notorious for having noisy electrical systems and noisy alternators that cause harm the the electrical devices or make them intermittently act up. There used to even be old TSB's and recommendations for them to install a super-capacitor right at the alternator on them to help reduce this noise. CRAPPY INVERTERS will also do this on any truck. If you have one of those "modified sine-wave inverters" installed for 120volts power.. that could very well be causing issues too.
**LASTLY... THAT TRUCK and engine are more than 20+ years old!. Someone who runs equipment that is ready for a junk yard or a museum, and then tries to haul freight with it ... you absolutely will get a lot of headaches. There are more modern trucks (not Volvo's) that will absolutely kick its arsse in long-term profitability at this point out there. This means that there is no excuse to replace it at this point, other than sheer stubbornness.
AND STOP THROWING PARTS AT IT BLINDLY!!>
(Instead of and throwing and wasting moneys on parts like a fool, here is just one example)...
** Instead of throwing injectors at it like a complete fool.... HAS ANYONE bothered to do a proper injector leak test on it?. I seriously doubt it.
ref: http://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=7747&pid=67948#pid67948
======================
#4...
The engine running slightly smoother after messing with batteries .. could be a whole lot of things and not just the ecm itself. AGAIN!!!>. proper troubleshooting instead of guessing is the answer... and not throwing parts at it blindly.
On the other hand however...
The ECM is only rated for about 8 years service life. Sure, they typically last a bit longer than that... but 8 years is all the electronics inside it is expected to last considering its heat and other exposures during that time. If you suspect a bad ECM + its as old as you say, then investing in a new one is not a bad choice towards ensuring up-time into the future.
-- and NO... DO NOT EVER BUY A REPAIRED OR REFURB ONE!!!.. --=BUY 100% CERTIFIED OEM ONLY==-!!.
A refurbed one (repaired of sold by a non-oem certified place, off internet, etc.) is going to have at best.. one or 2 new parts inside it and all the rest of the other components are still going to be VERY OLD!. It will be significantly less reliable due to this at best,,. but more often .. there is a plague of bad ecm's running around all over that are intermittent/flake out. I have sen people buy into 4 or 5 or more before they get one that actually works. -= all while getting ripped off!.
When you buy a reman ECM from a certified stealers%it, cummins directly.. YOU GET A BRAND NEW CIRCUIT BOARD INSIDE IT!. They can manufacture that board for far less moneys than it would be to hire some team of people to sit and solder on them + troubleshoot. - ALL they re-use in a reman ECM is the casing and frame inside it.. and slap a whole new board in them. That is why all of the the connectors (that are part of the board and not the casing) on the front if it is always brand spanking new as well.
AND YES... ALWAYS pay them extra to flash it fully. All ready to go for your truck so that you can just drive away. This is really cheap insurance against having to buy a second one if there is anything wrong with it out of the box. AS with any electronics, .. THEY WILL NOT TAKE IT BACK IF YOU CLAIM ITS DEAD OR HAVE ISSUES WITH IT NOT WORKING, ETC!.
It needs to be flashed by them (usually costs a few hundred bucks) and then simply installed and then the engine run for 10+ minutes BEFORE doing anything else to it (like any custom programming, etc) if need be.
And as far as the cost.. A NEW PC GAMING COMPUTER of decent caliper costs just about as much as that ECM, .. so $2000+ for a new one is not actually that unreasonable if you think about it.
I am not telling you to replace the ecm.. but simply stating that if it is 10+ years old or more.. it is not a bad investment ... although I would still tell you that instead of trying to get grandma to go the races yet another year ... to start looking into replacing that whole truck with something far more modern, far more fuel efficient, and more profitable overall.
A Prostar or Cascadia with an ISX that has an electronic VGT turbo .. + it custom programmed for best fuel mileage will kick that old 570 engine's butt in efficiency. - and Volvo in particular is about the worst choice in the aero truck market if someone is looking for good fuel economy in a truck.
The volvo chassis itself is 0.7mpg on average less efficient than other aero trucks out there. Add on top of that, if it has one of those i-shift trannies in it, and that is an additional 0.7 - 0.8 mpg less. Efficiency losses alone these days means that a truck owner will spend about $5,000+ every single year more on fuel vs something like a cascadia, prostar, or T700 w a newer model electronic vgt ISX in it.
i.e.> there are far more profitable trucks out there on the roads these days .. even when you factor in their more preventative maintenance needs. That is one of the main factors in why the freight rates are not going up. newer trucks are measurably more competitive in the market overall. Getting more modern trucks into the high 8's and low 9's everywhere it goes, even with 80,000 lbs freight is not unreasonable any more these days.
As far as problems with newer trucks goes... its all about preventative and regular tune-up work and maintenance by the truck owner (no repair shops are going to do any of it) BEFORE any check engine lights plague it. Most people are not educated in owning trucks to do this.. or are just too lazy, and then complain about all the issues instead of doing something about it. That is why there is such an up-tick on people having significantly more problems with newer trucks. It can absolutely be avoided.
RE: 2003 volvo isx15 cm570 issues - Magnat1976 - 03-12-2024
Hi Rawze, thanks for your time and effort, really appreciate...
It's not that I am throwing money randomly, reading your forum and listening advices out of there.
I messaged you earlier thru the private message, probably you are overwhelmed and lost my emails..
By any chance can I email you directly?
And yes,I am thinking to order the Ecm...oem cummins...but only RX available by my Vin..
The interesting thing you mentioned about that bug,sounds similar that I am experiencing....and like you wrote,I am having this constantly, almost permanently.
And you are saying that cummins haven't fixed it yet?
So if bring new ecm to cummins for programing, I was thinking to bring just ecm,and ask them to program on the bench,by the ESN...is it works?
do I need to ask them to flash new ecm?
And your mentioned BUG could be at new installed software?
RE: 2003 volvo isx15 cm570 issues - Rawze - 03-12-2024
(03-12-2024 )Magnat1976 Wrote: Hi Rawze, thanks for your time and effort, really appreciate...
It's not that I am throwing money randomly, reading your forum and listening advices out of there.
I messaged you earlier thru the private message, probably you are overwhelmed and lost my emails..
By any chance can I email you directly?
And yes,I am thinking to order the Ecm...oem cummins...but only RX available by my Vin..
The interesting thing you mentioned about that bug,sounds similar that I am experiencing....and like you wrote,I am having this constantly, almost permanently.
And you are saying that cummins haven't fixed it yet?
So if bring new ecm to cummins for programing, I was thinking to bring just ecm,and ask them to program on the bench,by the ESN...is it works?
do I need to ask them to flash new ecm?
And your mentioned BUG could be at new installed software?
If you suspect it being that sw bug I mentioned...
Just test drive the vehicle under a hard load when its acting up and see if the fuel flow caps out at exactly 250 mg/stroke and won't go any higher. This will tell you if it is getting stuck in that silent derate sw bug or not.
RE: 2003 volvo isx15 cm570 issues - Magnat1976 - 03-12-2024
Rawze, I have no idea how to do this...I am not so skilled mechanic.
I imagine I am asking so many questions...especially about Ecm and software...
That bug could be fixed with new software on new ecm?
I made a small donation and will do more,if you are willing to help me out.thanks