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+--- Thread: 5018 - 18 + 5018 -11 Nighmare (/showthread.php?tid=1990)
RE: 5018 - 18 + 5018 -11 Nighmare - Rawze - 08-05-2017
(08-05-2017 )MarkyMark Wrote: ...
When we popped the head up last month , everything seemed to be in a pretty good shape (other than the fact it was cracked and developed a leak)considering 738 k on this engine
...
Some details on what was done exactly? Was the head replaced? With new? -- or reman? or did someone re-work it? -- Why, was it cracked. and where was it cracked? -- or did it take out a head gasket?
Very few guys/shops tend to get those kind of things right without having a second failure these days. I see it a lot.
At 730k, if the head came off for any reason, it should have been replaced with a brand new one, and rod/main bearings rolled in. If it was a head gasket issue, you can be assured that without replacing liners, counter-boring it, and raising the liners to 0.014" height, it will do it again in short order.
RE: 5018 - 18 + 5018 -11 Nighmare - Waterloo - 08-06-2017
You need to rid yourself of the mandate, very easy to do, if you are in Africa. ;-)
First thing, do an EGR Tuneup, replace ALL of the sensors, including the Doser. The how to, step by step, is at the video section above...
Been through what you are going through with my CM-871, 2008 ProStar, it about bankrupted me until I found this site and Rawze... EGR Tuneup solved the immediate issues and got me back to profitability, and then the DPF filter went... Cummins quoted me $7300 for a new set up. I cured that issue, being in Africa, and rid myself of the mandate in my driveway with some simple hand tools, a Chinese In Line 5 reader from eBay and a laptop. That was what, 3+ years ago? The programming is sound, the results are evident, as there are many of us running it without issue. And Rawze was kind enough to do all of this work and post that info for all to use for FREE, including with PICTURES, LOL! It was like being a little kid again and finding Dad's stash of Playboy! I will never be able to thank Rawze enough. He did not save my marriage, but he more importantly SAVED MY BACON!
Back to your issue, after I did the EGR Tuneup, the REAL fun began... All of the very real, and VERY ugly issues with the motor reared their ugly head. And this all went down soon after completing the EGR Tuneup. That mandate crap masks quite a bit of damage, like a bad head. I won't go into all of the ugly details, but did you know that your radiator can explode? It did, and thank GOD I was sitting, PARKED, in the staging area when it happened.
The heads on the 871 are disposables. They are normally good for what, 700,000 miles? Do not reman the head, do not purchase a reman head, install a NEW head. A dirty little secret at Cummins is that many of their reman 871 heads are actually brand new, as the odds of getting a decent head to reman off of an 871 are slim to none. Kind of says it all in my book.
Bottom line, you have EGR issues, start with the tuneup, including a new Doser, and then remove the mandate. More than likely, you will need to do what Rawze stated earlier, put a brand new head on that motor and roll new bearings in underneath and than hollow out those cans. That is where I would start. Once that is done, you will have a bulletproof motor, unless there is other internal damage, and then you are looking at an in frame.
A little fact here, the CM-871 produces 6 POUNDS of soot between oil changes. Guess where the bulk of that soot winds up? Have you noticed when you are servicing the truck, when the nice young man fills your motor with fresh HONEY BROWN oil and pulls the dipstick out for your inspection and that the oil is already coal black? Soot baby, SOOT! It stays in your motor and just eats it alive.
I checked my oil this morning, I normally change it out every 12,000 to 15,000 miles... Right now I have around 14,000 miles on my Rotella, regular dino... It is still Honey Brown and CLEAR. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. ;-)
You are in the right place, and I am far from a go to guy around here, I just have dumb luck and a lot of help. I'm the guy that asks the stupid questions, LOL! But God have I been through the mill, and the guys here will attest to that, including Rawze. BUT, like Brock stated in his earlier post, there are a whole bunch of us guys here that have been through EXACTLY what you are currently going through and we are here to help. Real help, no BS here, and you can bank on that. ;-)
RE: 5018 - 18 + 5018 -11 Nighmare - Hammerhead - 08-06-2017
I hate to point out the tree in the forest, but; new turbo(s), doser injector, resomethinged a cracked head, baked DPF...
Cracked head=coolant intrusion...all these issues...I'd be willing to bet the precious metals in the DOC are washed out and toast, not having the ability to cause the catalyst reaction to ignite the fuel to successfully regen?
Creating the endless cycle of repeated failures of the same components. Reflected heat issues, plugged exhaust, excess back pressures...rinse, wash, repeat...
RE: 5018 - 18 + 5018 -11 Nighmare - MarkyMark - 08-06-2017
Thank you all for great advice !
As soon as i get back to chicago tomorrow ill try getting more details on the head work , do a forced regen and post the numbers . If DOC needs to be replaced and head reworked it will total probably close to 10k of work plus whatever time and money i need to put into egr tunup . Hopefully that will not be the case . My question is , is this really worth it considering the mileage ? I have an opportunity to get an n14 1999 for 7k and i've been told that it can be installed in place of my 871 .Accoring to new guidelines that move would also save me from using dreaded elogs as they will take into consideration engine manufacturing daye not the body . I have an eaton fuller auto transmission, any thoughts on that ?
RE: 5018 - 18 + 5018 -11 Nighmare - Billdozer2 - 08-06-2017
Personally, I would just @m*m^2 your 871. Nothing against the N14, I've heard stories about them. But, I think an @m*m^2'ed 871 would be much better than an N14. However, that is just a guess. I have no experience in either engine.
RE: 5018 - 18 + 5018 -11 Nighmare - Hammerhead - 08-06-2017
Don't let the elog mandate scare you into chasing unicorns and pixie dust with swapping out to an older motor thinking you've found the rabbit hole...cause that rabbit hole may not be the dreamland you're thinking it is...
I'm with Billdozer, MM that 871 and IMHO you're in a lot better place in the end.
I might not have said this 2 years ago, but after taking the initiative and time to learn this motor, I'm of the opinion that it can be better if you get it set up right in the first place.
RE: 5018 - 18 + 5018 -11 Nighmare - MarkyMark - 08-07-2017
Ok guys as always big thanks to everyone contributing to this thread
Got back to chicago i will take a week off and do egr tuneup as recommended, i already had the dealer set aside all the sensors for me to pick up 2moro . Also as soon as ill do de regen ill post the info on that as well , hope all will come out well , oh and im set up for @m*m^2 on thursday at one of the local shops . Let's try this route and hope for the best . The head is new , it wasn't a gasket issue and before replacement it didn't leak coolant - any thoughts on that ?
Thank you
RE: 5018 - 18 + 5018 -11 Nighmare - Hammerhead - 08-07-2017
(08-07-2017 )MarkyMark Wrote: Ok guys as always big thanks to everyone contributing to this thread
Got back to chicago i will take a week off and do egr tuneup as recommended, i already had the dealer set aside all the sensors for me to pick up 2moro . Also as soon as ill do de regen ill post the info on that as well , hope all will come out well , oh and im set up for @m*m^2 on thursday at one of the local shops . Let's try this route and hope for the best . The head is new , it wasn't a gasket issue and before replacement it didn't leak coolant - any thoughts on that ?
Thank you
Make sure it's getting @m*m^2, not some popular other programming, or you're trading one set of issues for another set of issues. If you're not 100%, get with one of the members here to give you the proper questions to ask them to verify that it's being done correctly. If you're indeed MMing the engine, you are on the right track.
If so, there's no sense in doing another regen after you clean all the soot out and replace the sensors. You're just putting soot right back into a freshly cleaned out system, kinda redundant.
The new head was definantly the right way to go, unfortunate without knowing your liner protrusions and the conditions of them, as well as the almost certain possibility it wasn't torqued with the recommended procedure here of;
Torque head bolts according to 300ft/lbs according to procedure.
Stop procedure, wait 24hrs, now Re-torque head bolts to 300ft/lbs.
Return to procedure and rotate 90* after re-torquing in proper sequence.
It is unlikely that you will get the life from the rest of the engine and the new head you should get.
RE: 5018 - 18 + 5018 -11 Nighmare - Rawze - 08-07-2017
(08-07-2017 )MarkyMark Wrote: ..
oh and im set up for @m*m^2 on thursday at one of the local shops
...
There is no place in the chacago area that does mm properly that I have ever head of. Had a dozen guys or more in the last couple years that have had to spend more money to have their de-mandate redone from that area of the country because it was not correct.
Lots of copy-cats out there,... hardly any of them ever even get it close to being right.
Here is some reference for you as a comparison ...
http://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=731&pid=5944#pid5944