+- Rawze.com: Rawze's ISX Technical Discussion and more (http://rawze.com/forums)
+-- Forum: Big Truck Technical Discussion... (/forumdisplay.php?fid=1)
+--- Forum: ISX Related Help (/forumdisplay.php?fid=68)
+--- Thread: CM871 Slow Climbing Regen Temps (/showthread.php?tid=269)
RE: CM871 Slow Climbing Regen Temps - Rawze - 03-30-2016
(03-30-2016 )Taco05 Wrote: ...
get all the numbers again including the turbo specs which I am suspecting the most since I have not changed it and it is red
...
Is the truck gettng low boost?
Is it getting turbo position alarms?
Are you getting turbo intake temp alarms?
Does it have an oil leak?
Everyone always blames the turbo when the regen system will not function properly. It is actually EXTREMELY RARE for it to actually be the turbo if there are no turbo alarms. Most of the time when it is actually turbo-related, it is something else making the turbo not functiuon properly, like a Delta-P sensor, bad egr valve, bad exhaust pressure sensor, etc.
What is the AV# in Insite say for the calibration?
Have you verified that you have the right software in the truck? -- and is it the right software for the newer, updated DPF can?
The AV# in Insite should start with a AV102??.??, and NOT the older original AV100??,?? or 101??.??
What does the Dataplate say should be in there for software?
Does it even have the right Software in it? AV102??.?? -- first thing you should have done when trying to solve regen problems is to ensure it has the exact software for that engine and truck. Yes, it makes a HUGE difference to have the right software, etc.
-- I have seen many trucks that struggle to regen properly when someone "uprates" the horsepower with a different factory program. Here is more on this...
http://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=1&pid=1#pid1
RE: CM871 Slow Climbing Regen Temps - Taco05 - 03-30-2016
I was about to ask how much difference does calibration make, bc I checked with the local cummins and they said it was up to date but they have been wrong before. I called another cummins dealer 70 miles away and he stated that it needs to be updated with the current update which also addresses some aftertreatment issues.
Current ECM Code :AV10060.39 , They said I need AV10060.45 , Data Plate on ECM : AV10060.18
Filter # that is installed is 4969703, New number that they offer right now is 5297989NX which also requires AV10223.
I guess I should take it to cummins for calibration?
RE: CM871 Slow Climbing Regen Temps - Cuya - 03-30-2016
I made PM to him.
RE: CM871 Slow Climbing Regen Temps - Rawze - 03-30-2016
(03-30-2016 )Taco05 Wrote: I was about to ask how much difference does calibration make, bc I checked with the local cummins and they said it was up to date but they have been wrong before. I called another cummins dealer 70 miles away and he stated that it needs to be updated with the current update which also addresses some aftertreatment issues.
Current ECM Code :AV10060.39 , They said I need AV10060.45 , Data Plate on ECM : AV10060.18
Filter # that is installed is 4969703, New number that they offer right now is 5297989NX which also requires AV10223.
I guess I should take it to cummins for calibration?
For the older style DPF, it is AV10060.xx -- the .xx is the revision/update number. Any revision .44 or after is going to be exactly the same because they stopped updating them.
If you have the newer style DPf can, it is NOT AV10223,.. that is an incorrect statement (though it will work). The actual replacement calibration is AV10219. this tells me clearly that your guy at the dealer is somewhat misinformed.
Since I did not have it listed on my "increasing power" article, I went ahead and added to the list over on that page.
Here is the actual reality of it...
Code:
These are interchangeable with each other ...
===========================
-- AV10055.xx (385-HP) (CPL 2732) - AV10214 for newer DPF Style.
-- AV10057.xx (400-HP) (CPL 2732) - AV10216 for newer DPF Style.
-- AV10058.xx (400-HP) (CPL 2732) - AV10217 for newer DPF Style. (6% better torque than AV10057, otherwise exactly the same).
-- AV10060.xx (425-HP) (CPL 2732) - AV10219 for newer DPF Style. (5% less torque than AV10061 in the 1100 - 1400 rpm range only, otherwise exactly the same).
-- AV10061.xx (425-HP) (CPL 2732) - AV10220 for newer DPF Style.
-- AV10064.xx (435-HP) (CPL 2732) - AV10223 for newer DPF Style.
-- AV10065.xx (435-HP) (CPL 2732) - AV10224 for newer DPF Style. Identical to AV10064 but has 5% more torque in the 1100 - 1500 RPM band.
-- AV10070.xx (450-HP) (CPL 2732) - AV10229 for newer DPF Style. (Limited to 400-HP in the 1050-1400 RPM range only)
-- AV10071.xx (450-HP) (CPL 2732) - AV10230 for newer DPF Style.
-- AV10181.xx (475-HP) (CPL 2732) - AV10234 for newer DPF Style.
-- AV10183.xx (475-HP) (CPL 2732) - AV10236 for newer DPF Style. Same as AV10181.xx but with extra torque in the 1100-1400 RPM band.
===========================You can now clearly see where it stands in the list.
YES, all these calibrations are 100% interchangeable WITHOUT ANY ILL EFFECTS to the after-treatment systems at all. ALL 7,000+ setting for the engine are absolutely identical except for the torque and power curve settings alone. Not one single setting is different amongst them for the DPF, DOC, EGR, etc. Not one. -- this is why I listed them in this group in my article as being compatible,.. and believe me they have been tested thoroughly.
If your truck takes a AV10060, you can use any of the AV numbers listed above with no ill effects to the emissions system as long as you make sure you have the newer versions for the newer style DPf can, or the older version for the older cans. The latest revision is also preferred for them is also preferred. In your case, it would be the .44 or .45 like you mentioned.
If you have verified that you are in fact running the right program in the ecm itself for that truck (looking at it in the ECM and not the data-plate), then that is not likely your issue.
=========================
If your numbers are starting to go high (8+) like that then pull apart the DOC and DPF cans when they reach those levels and take pictures of BOTH their faces after it is reading high again and post them here. A picture is sometimes worth a thousand word.
Also, you need to make sure the truck does not have excess soot problems. Excess soot will build up in the motor and clog up the oil filters making the oil pressure drop off from its normal 35+ going down the road to as low as 32 or less after 10,000 of maybe 12,000 miles or more. This is a very bad situation to be in and it will cause large amounts of excessive engine wear until the excess soot problem is fixed. it can also clog up cross-drillings, like mentioned in this article...
http://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=141&pid=783#pid783
RE: CM871 Slow Climbing Regen Temps - Taco05 - 03-31-2016
Last few days regens were all between 3-4.5 inHg and they were all about an hour apart.
these are the numbers when I did a forced regen yesterday.
EGR Diff pressure .0 inHg
EGR Valve position 0%
Exhaust gas pressure 146 inHg
Intake manifold pressure 13.2 inHg
Percent load 0%
Turbo position 88%
Turbo Speed 45325
Aftertreatment Differential pressure was at 2.3 during regen and after 5 min I was only at about 650F for both rear temp. Regen lasted about 40 min and peak temp were both over 1000F.
Calibration has been performed last night by cummins and they also did a snap test which they stated the truck has passed. Truck is doing a short run and should be back tomorrow I will forced it again and compare numbers.
Guys thank you very much for your time and knowledge it is very much appreciated !
RE: CM871 Slow Climbing Regen Temps - Taco05 - 04-05-2016
Finally was able to run another forced regen and most of the numbers were identical as before but he came back with a few more codes.
After treatment diff pressure was at 1.6 inHg this time.
The ECM has been updated to AV10219.12
New Codes:
Turbo Intake Temp SID 384 FMI 0
VGT Actuator SID 27 FMI 7
I am noticing a slight miss in the engine as well and looks like from the rear bank, unplugging the rear two fuel solenoid make almost no difference. The first time I ran the Injector cutout engine stalled on cylinder 6, 15 min later ran the same test and it ran fine on all individual cylinders including 6.
RE: CM871 Slow Climbing Regen Temps - Rawze - 04-06-2016
Unplugging fueling or timing actuators while the engine is running is not a good troubleshooting method at all. If will give you some pretty unpredictable results that you cannot rely on. The ECM fails the solenoid and refuses to fire it properly for as many as 10 minutes after, so plugging and unplugging will make you think it makes no difference, or it will fool you into swearing one or more is bad, .. and then you will replace very expensive parts for nothing! -- It is a very common mistake that improperly trained mechanics make in many shops too,... wasting peoples money.
( not directed towards you, but others reading this that do not know ...)
DON'T WASTE MONEY ON EXPENSIVE PARTS! ---- ESPECIALLY IF YOU COME ACROSS SOME IGNORANT MECHANIC DOING, OR TELLING YOU TO DO THIS!
RE: CM871 Slow Climbing Regen Temps - Taco05 - 04-07-2016
Next step that I have planned is to remove the valve cover and look for any bad signs and possibly replacing injector orings and overhead adj. I can hear the fuel solenoids click and miss but the cutout test has not help me at all.
Any suggestions??
I know something is off with the rear bank 4,5,6 and that is most likely my issue that is causing more smoke and all my DPF problems.
RE: CM871 Slow Climbing Regen Temps - in2trux - 04-07-2016
Have you tried swapping the metering actuators? Front bank to rear bank, the problem should move to the front bank if it's bad. Search rawze.com for " checking actuators", rawze did an excellent article on checking them with a dial indicator.