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+--- Thread: Possible head/valve problem (/showthread.php?tid=5160)
RE: Possible head/valve problem - tree98 - 10-09-2019
If I were you I would take it to Mr Hagg in Georgia. You ask why I have the opinion I do of the dealers and shops? There are endless stories on this forum of guys just like yourself paying a LOT of money for what they think is quality work only to find out(usually to late)its the exact opposite. These dealer techs are grossly undertrained and all that matters is that they get you down the road far enough that your the next shops problem, that is after they take there pound of flesh.
I see your new here, do you have the cummins insite program? If not its attainable from ebay for an affordable price. It allows you to read and clear codes, do some diagnostic tests, look at abuse history, it's the same program the dealers use. You also need to register your engine on Cummins quickserve it's free, that gives you access to a TON of information about your exact engine. Parts diagrams/numbers, all service procedures and what speciality tools you'll need(if any) again same info the dealer uses. The red engine is hands down the easiest engine for an O/O to work on solely because we have access to all this information. Your in the right place, consider yourself lucky you found it.
RE: Possible head/valve problem - Downthehaul - 10-09-2019
Read you loud and clear partner, I am determined to do as much maintenance myself as possible. I just did the egr tune up based on rawze’s video and replaced most of the sensors and cleaned the dpf/doc, plus replaced the egr valve.
I will definitely register on quickserve, and insite will be coming soon. This forum really is awesome no doubt about it.
RE: Possible head/valve problem - Waterloo - 10-10-2019
(10-09-2019 )Downthehaul Wrote: Holy moly, that’s more than I paid for the truck. What does the whole kit include? Surely the crank and the block don’t get replaced?
Average in frame cost is roughly $30,000, a Cummins reman motor, long block, close to $40,000... But they are normally junk, so avoid.
This is not your grandfather's trucking, no GTO here (Gas, Tires and Oil)... Now, you are the mechanic, the diagnostics technician, electrical engineer, and occasionally you will get to drive the truck in between your other duties.
That $38,000 in frame included many extra parts and pieces than a standard in frame. New clutch, and if you ever do the clutch, the rear housing gasket should be replaced at the same time! Many new parts that were still operational but getting close to their end of life were replaced.
These new trucks are designed to live 500,000 miles and are then to be discarded, as they were never intended to go much more than that. Like that head, it is disposable. The quality is long gone, and this is with every manufacturer, not just Cummins, and you can thank the EPA.
As far as an in frame, everything will depend upon what is replaced. I know my second in frame the dealer stepped up and sent $14,000 in parts, (They installed the wrong internal parts in my CM-871) the in frame kit, a 6 pack of injectors and the two cams. I bought the new head at $3200, a new head, not a reman, never use a reman, they fail in short order. So figure $18,000 in initial parts, take the injectors out and that price drops to around $13,000. And, the 2250 and 2350 only use one cam, so subtract another $1000...
When me and Rawze got the truck apart, we discovered even more issues, front gear train was not installed properly on the cams, one of the scissor gears was ready to blow apart, the deck was not cut for the liners, the lower end bearings were shot, many mistakes were made and Cummins procedures skipped. This was around 100,000 miles after the first in frame, the motor looked like it had a million plus miles on it internally.
Then we got into the rest of the truck, new exhaust manifold needed, new YTS turbo purchased as Cummins reman was slobbering oil everywhere, my second one, new plumbing for turbo, new thermostat, new oil pump, new power steering cooling system, new ECM, new fan clutch, new air compressor, the list just kept going and going...
Then we had to wait for parts, that took nearly a month. Then it rained for a month, then we finally got to work on the truck, LOL! It was an expensive winter and spring. I arrived in the first week of February and did not return back to Detroit until May... Rawze and the family are fantastic folks, putting up with me, if you ever get a chance to visit they are the salt of the Earth. And boy can Rawze cook!
Bottom line, if you need work done like an in frame, and do not plan on doing it yourself, there is only one place in the USA to take it, and that is to Mr Hagg in Griffin GA. He helped me quite a bit when I was down there, the man is a saint, just as Rawze is. Mr Hagg follows the book when in framing these ISX motors, unlike the dealerships. He is the only man I would trust, other than Rawze to crack my motor. But, if you have the tools and can follow the simple instructions found in Cummins Quickserve, and watch some of Rawze's step by step in frame videos, the job is not that difficult. I am confident I could do another one if I had too with the right tools, AND a shop. I do not recommend doing this in the driveway, LOL.
Do it right the first time, I ignored taking it to Mr Hagg as I have done business with the dealership that botched my motor for years. I thought they would do me right, and boy was I wrong. Take the truck to GA and let Mr Hagg and maybe even Rawze go through it. Follow their advice and ignore them at your own peril, do not be a victim like myself and others here. The highway is littered with us guys. You sir, are in the right place. Again, DON'T BE A VICTIM.
Rawze, you need t-shirts, "Don't be a victim" Rawze.com LOL!
RE: Possible head/valve problem - Chamberpains - 10-10-2019
Cummins cert reman long blocks can be had for $20k-$26k. I think Waterloo is referring to $40k for a complete or "turn key" engine. I'm just picking nits here.
If i had known then what I know now I would have had my truck towed to Mr. Haggs in Georgia to have it overhauled instead of paying a poedunk crap shop to completely screw up an engine swap with a Cummins certified reman long block. I can clearly see that my head is a reman head and that keeps me nervous every time I fire it off.
RE: Possible head/valve problem - Unilevers - 10-10-2019
you guys get crazy prices down there. Cummins reman long blocks up here, time its in your truck and running is 55 - 60grand. The long block itself 45 (im talking common rail). A complete and thorough inframe here come somewhere between 40-60 grand depending on what it needs. I can guarantee you are not leaving for less than 40 grand though no matter what needs changing on a inframe.
obviously this is Canadian funny money
RE: Possible head/valve problem - Volvo8873 - 10-10-2019
(10-10-2019 )Chamberpains Wrote: Cummins cert reman long blocks can be had for $20k-$26k. I think Waterloo is referring to $40k for a complete or "turn key" engine. I'm just picking nits here.How many miles are on it now?
If i had known then what I know now I would have had my truck towed to Mr. Haggs in Georgia to have it overhauled instead of paying a poedunk crap shop to completely screw up an engine swap with a Cummins certified reman long block. I can clearly see that my head is a reman head and that keeps me nervous every time I fire it off.
RE: Possible head/valve problem - Waterloo - 10-10-2019
(10-10-2019 )Chamberpains Wrote: Cummins cert reman long blocks can be had for $20k-$26k. I think Waterloo is referring to $40k for a complete or "turn key" engine. I'm just picking nits here.
If i had known then what I know now I would have had my truck towed to Mr. Haggs in Georgia to have it overhauled instead of paying a poedunk crap shop to completely screw up an engine swap with a Cummins certified reman long block. I can clearly see that my head is a reman head and that keeps me nervous every time I fire it off.
Serious, Cummins quoted me $28,000 in December of 2014 or 15, I in framed the motor two months later. I called on that same motor, thinking it would be quicker to drop one in, as it was sitting in their back room there at Bridgeway Cummins in New Hudson MI, same motor. Jerry turned around and quoted me $38,000 for that same long block. Not a turn key one either, just a standard no accessories nothing long block... I about fell over. He said all pricing changed on January 1st of that year. Talk about highway robbery. I have no clue what that motor would cost today. And from the sounds of things, I would have probably be in the same boat vs the botched in frame. I had no clue back then how badly Cummins throws these reman crate motors together.
RE: Possible head/valve problem - Chamberpains - 10-10-2019
I have a 165,000 on mine. I paid $19,700 from MHC in Kingsport TN in August 2017. It is a CM870 so maybe that's why it was not quite as expensive. It came with everything valve cover down, no ECM, no manifolds, no turbo, or sensors.
RE: Possible head/valve problem - tree98 - 10-11-2019
(10-10-2019 )Chamberpains Wrote: I have a 165,000 on mine. I paid $19,700 from MHC in Kingsport TN in August 2017. It is a CM870 so maybe that's why it was not quite as expensive. It came with everything valve cover down, no ECM, no manifolds, no turbo, or sensors.
You bought a Cummins reman 870 ? How were the liner heights?