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+--- Thread: CM871 bad delete (/showthread.php?tid=6149)
RE: CM871 bad delete - Rawze - 05-06-2020
(05-06-2020 )Roadrailer Wrote: Yea i was afraid you might say that.
the ISX will not stay together if it is abused, or if the inframe was done incorrectly. -- Unfortunately, this is the norm, not the exception any more.
Expect it to need an in-frame + a brand new OEM head. -- On top of all that, the bulk of the truck systems and components, bushings, etc... to be slap worn out.
Personally, if the truck was going for about 8k or so, it would be a decent deal.... Otherwise you will never get a return on the investment because your looking easily at putting 30k in it (this assumes you do all the labour yourself, 15k-18k just in parts alone for another in-frame, this time done correctly 100%+ proper counter-boring to raise liners to 0.014", etc.. and all the other things recomended) before even hauling any freight to get it 100$ reliable again ... and another 10-15k for the rest of the things that get found once it it on the roads again. ... -40-45k in total within a year or 2 is a realistic estimate ... this would be the ballpark to make it last another million+ -- the only way your going to get a positive return on this investment is to drive it yourself the next 10+ years... because no one on planet earth with their right mind is going to pay you anything near what you have invested in it at this point.
It would actually be cheaper to buy something with 500k miles on it and push it and fix on it little at a time and save up for a proper inframe in the next 2-3 years than to mess with that boat anchor of a truck that has been neglected, abused, frame and drive-line abused and twisted, front and rear structures going to leak like hell from all the abuse and age,.. and the 10,000 other things that is going to give way over the next couple 3 years. -- that is the truth of it.
Ask him 8k maybe 10k max for it,.. only if you already have 30k to invest in it before even hauling any freight. If you cannot get those two to come together,... tell the guy your not interested...you have been warned. That the liner height is likely not even at 0.014" on it when you pull the head. Its almost guaranteed that there is a lot of secondary damage from all the abuse that keeps cracking the head. - that thing is going to need a complete and thorough in-frame top to bottom PLUS ALL THE EXTRA STEPS AND THINGS RECOMMENDED TO DO TO IT THAT IS TALKED ABOUT ON THIS FORUM WHILE IT IS APART or it is going to keep failing!.
I.E.> you seem to think that merely a proper program will fix it... that is likely a huge part of the problem, but I grantee those heads did not go bad that fast due to bad programming alone. Poor workmanship is part of the bigger issue there combined with other damage that is clearly being ignored. You need to see the much bigger picture there.
BTW: If it is a CM871,.. you can fix the programming yourself if you are even half-way computer savvy and can do things like open and fill out a spread sheet, or do other typical things. The best de-mandate on the planet for the CM871 is completely free... plus all the tools and instructions needed to do it. - Many of the truck owners on this forum have done theirs themselves. Paying someone else just to program it should actually not cost you more than a few hundred bucks otherwise... it is rip-off shops that charge $2,000+ bucks, You've clearly been talking to the wrong people.
RE: CM871 bad delete - Roadrailer - 05-06-2020
(05-06-2020 )Rawze Wrote:(05-06-2020 )Roadrailer Wrote: Yea i was afraid you might say that.
the ISX will not stay together if it is abused, or if the inframe was done incorrectly. -- Unfortunately, this is the norm, not the exception any more.
Expect it to need an in-frame + a brand new OEM head. -- On top of all that, the bulk of the truck systems and components, bushings, etc... to be slap worn out.
Personally, if the truck was going for about 8k or so, it would be a decent deal.... Otherwise you will never get a return on the investment because your looking easily at putting 30k in it (this assumes you do all the labour yourself, 15k-18k just in parts alone for another in-frame, this time done correctly 100%+ proper counter-boring to raise liners to 0.014", etc.. and all the other things recomended) before even hauling any freight to get it 100$ reliable again ... and another 10-15k for the rest of the things that get found once it it on the roads again. ... -40-45k in total within a year or 2 is a realistic estimate ... this would be the ballpark to make it last another million+ -- the only way your going to get a positive return on this investment is to drive it yourself the next 10+ years... because no one on planet earth with their right mind is going to pay you anything near what you have invested in it at this point.
It would actually be cheaper to buy something with 5090k miles on it and push it and fix on it little at a time and save up for a proper inframe in the next 2-3 years than to mess with that boat anchor of a truck that has been neglected, abused, frame and drive-line abused and twisted, front and rear structures going to leak like hell from all the abuse and age,.. and the 10,000 other things that is going to give way over the next couple 3 years. -- that is the truth of it.
Ask him 8k maybe 10k max for it,.. only if you already have 30k to invest in it before even hauling any freight. If you cannot get those two to come together,... tell the guy your not interested...you have been warned. That the liner height is likely not even at 0.014" on it when you pull the head. Its almost guaranteed that there is a lot of secondary damage from all the abuse that keeps cracking the head. - that thing is going to need a complete and thorough in-frame top to bottom PLUS ALL THE EXTRA STEPS AND THINGS RECOMMENDED TO DO TO IT THE IS TALKED ABOUT ON THIS FORUM WHILE IT IS APART or it is going to keep failing!.
I.E.> you seem to think that merely a proper program will fix it... that is likely a huge part of the problem, but I grantee those heads did not go bad that fast due to bad programming alone. Poor workmanship is part of the bigger issue there combined with other damage that is clearly being ignored. You need to see the much bigger picture there.
BTW: If it is a CM871,.. you can fix the programming yourself if you are even half-way computer savvy and can do things like open and fill out a spread sheet, or do other typical things. The best de-mandate on the planet for the CM871 is completely free... plus all the tools and instructions needed to do it. - Many of the truck owners on this forum have done theirs themselves. Paying someone else just to program it should actually not cost you more than a few hundred bucks otherwise... it is rip-off shops that charge $2,000+ bucks, You've clearly been talking to the wrong people.
Thanks Rawze. I didnt mean to imply I believed just a program itself will fix the problem. There is clearly more to it than that. I know nothing about the ISX. Last cummins i ran was an N14. I only mentioned 2500$ for the ECM because that was what the guy who did it charged the original owner according the the invoice i was provided. I have no knowledge of that stuff at all. Seems absolutely outrageous to me that programming an ECM would cost that much. Again, another reason why i came to your forum.
Now when youre talking about 8-10k are you talking USD or CAD? Im up in Canada and our money aint wort shi#t compared to yours.
RE: CM871 bad delete - Lonestar10 - 05-06-2020
I think unilevers up there has a cost of something around 50-60k cad for a normal overhaul. I paid about 12000 USD for a new head in September
RE: CM871 bad delete - Unilevers - 05-07-2020
a complete out of frame (which is probably what it needs) is gonna run you 45-55k up here in canada land. This includes the turbo, injectors, head and all the necessary other fun stuff. There are places that will do a piston a liner swap for 20k, but that is all your gonna get is different pistons and liners.
stuff is very much more expensive up here.
RE: CM871 bad delete - 2015Petetri - 05-07-2020
Hi Unilevers. I’m a O/O in GP. 2015 Pete tri drive. I’ve been on this great forum for 1.5 years. A ton of reading, but this is my first post. Is there a chance you would message me here ? Thanks Richard
RE: CM871 bad delete - Roadrailer - 05-13-2020
(05-07-2020 )Unilevers Wrote: a complete out of frame (which is probably what it needs) is gonna run you 45-55k up here in canada land. This includes the turbo, injectors, head and all the necessary other fun stuff. There are places that will do a piston a liner swap for 20k, but that is all your gonna get is different pistons and liners.
stuff is very much more expensive up here.
I have the invoice for the last time that was done. New holset Turbo, 6 liners and pistons, 4 rockers, a camshaft, rods and mains, injectors, head and oil pump. Total was 34k. That was 5 years ago though.
RE: CM871 bad delete - Unilevers - 05-13-2020
(05-13-2020 )Roadrailer Wrote:(05-07-2020 )Unilevers Wrote: a complete out of frame (which is probably what it needs) is gonna run you 45-55k up here in canada land. This includes the turbo, injectors, head and all the necessary other fun stuff. There are places that will do a piston a liner swap for 20k, but that is all your gonna get is different pistons and liners.
stuff is very much more expensive up here.
I have the invoice for the last time that was done. New holset Turbo, 6 liners and pistons, 4 rockers, a camshaft, rods and mains, injectors, head and oil pump. Total was 34k. That was 5 years ago though.
ya most of cummins parts have doubled in price now. The turbos for a common rail are 6500cad and the common rail injectors are just over 1500cad each. That stuff adds up fast.
RE: CM871 bad delete - Lonestar10 - 05-14-2020
Can see it just in truck prices 50k us truck is 86-90k cad
RE: CM871 bad delete - MageRoyal - 05-25-2020
(05-06-2020 )Roadrailer Wrote: Seems absolutely outrageous to me that programming an ECM would cost that much
...
to fix the tune. for a CM871, you can do it youself. everything is on web for it 4 free to do it right.
$300 usd bucks or so for an inline5 or inline6 adapter from china.
A used windows-7 laptop.
Insite 7.6 software going on the laptop... its all ovoer the internet for free w the keymaker. just gotta get the links and dnload it.
step-by-step Instructions and overlay and e-c-f-g for doing the ecm yourself on the interwebs too. Folloe th instruction & Send copy of it to Rawze or one of the other guys on here before slappin it in ecm just to make sure it is right.-- Done. -- 100% clean and proper and no more BS crap overpriced questionable tuning.
-- Otherwise Tell anyone who wants more than a few hundred bucks and is not willing to send copy of tune for a review to one of the members here to ensure its right to go FF#$$ themselves!.
run as fast away as u can away form all those idiot with laptop who want $2,000+ for a tune that can be done free yourself with a only a little efforts.