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+--- Thread: Flywheel housing gasket replacement (/showthread.php?tid=2562)
RE: Flywheel housing gasket replacement - the missing link - 01-09-2018
Your a good man hammer although I am sure your going WTF right about now , just think of the hack job she would have got not to mention all the shi#t they would have missed just about anywhere up here .
RE: Flywheel housing gasket replacement - Hammerhead - 01-10-2018
(01-09-2018 )Mrkentee Wrote: First of all, I’m jealous-of the garage, equipment, knowledge, and time you have to do this. I do a lot of stuff in my residential driveway, but I stop at pulling transmissions, and that. And the truck doesn’t fit in my garage, so not much work gets done outside in the winter (Massachusetts).I here ya, that's why renting a shop is part of my business plan, it allows me to do stuff like this. As far as the time, I hadn't planned it to take this long, but life has interfered and I am taking/have taken personal time outs because of that and it is making this drag out, but that's ok because she's worth it.
(01-09-2018 )Mrkentee Wrote: But I just arranged to drop off my truck for the very same thing (to a good independent shop).It’s not real bad yet, but I want to catch it before it gets worse.I hate the fact that I'm a damn perfectionist! I am at the point I've had so much subpar work done, I just don't trust anybody to do a half decent job anymore so that's why I'm doing this, I wish I knew of one I could trust like you.
(01-09-2018 )the missing link Wrote: Your a good man hammer although I am sure your going WTF right about now , just think of the hack job she would have got not to mention all the shi#t they would have missed just about anywhere up here .Thanks buddy...WTF is the PG version of how I'm feeling. I've got lots of beer and Forty Creek if you're in the neighborhood...
I'm replacing anything that isn't right. I spent a few hours cleaning last night and again today, so Mrkentee you are far more intelligent than me, I left this for too damn long, it's a mess in here, and I'm paying for it, I don't think my floor will ever be clean again!
Free advise time; don't be a Hammerhead! Replace this gasket at first signs of leakage!
I replaced all the hiem joints on the clutch linkage because a couple of them weren't good, and now is the easiest time.
(01-09-2018 )Mrkentee Wrote: They will do rear motor mounts, and probably rear main seal. My clutch is only two years old. I don’t plan on replacing it. Maybe replace pilot bearing and throw-out bearing. My trans functions ok. I wish I had money to go through it like you are. (825,000 miles).Rear motor mounts are removed to do this job, so replacing them only makes sense, it adds 0 seconds of labour and only costs the parts, so now is the time. The rear main seal is compromised and is also replaced as part of this job.
I wouldn't reuse the clutch if I was you. It's one thing to reuse a clutch if you have the tools, jacks, and equipment to replace it yourself, then it's just your time & cost of parts when you do have to replace it. However if you are paying someone to go in there for you, then not replacing the clutch is "tripping over dollars to save nickels" as Rawze says. Once again, it must be removed to do the job, so it's only cost of parts and it's about 12 hours of labour to replace it in a year or if you're lucky two. Do the input shaft, clutch shafts and fork, because you're there. If you don't pull over 100k lbs, trannys rarely require any service for well over a million miles, so you're ok not going through it, but I couldn't in good conciensious advise you not to do the clutch.
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I was astonished at how badly my flywheel housing was cracked! It's cracked everywhere! The motor mounts showed wear, but they were by no means collapsed, the bolts seemed tight, I did use an air impact to remove them so I didnt actually feel their torque, but I can't explain all the cracks. My OEM housing is marked "Made in USA" and the OEM one I got from the wrecker is marked "Made in India" and the casting is much smoother, like not even close!
[attachment=3428]
So I found a mystery O-ring in the oil cavity at the back of the block pushed partially into the drivers side oil rifle! Talk about feeling jitters! It's clearly been in there for quite a while as it was hardened solid. I have used Baldwin filters for several years and wonder if this is one of the O-rings from the infamous shitty batch of Fleetguard oil filters that were famously coming loose and plugging up piston cooling jet nozzles and taking out motors. I pulled an O-ring out of a Baldwin filter sitting in the waste filter bin, and sure enough I can ply it to match the inner dia of this O-ring. I have no idea what F/G uses now, but the Baldwin filter O-ring is easily twice as thick as this one, so I'm still not 100% sure, but I am 110% sure damn happy I found it when I did! There were wear marks from the machined edges of the oil rifle, and this O-ring would certainly have broken in a matter of time and I'm sure cost me a lot of sadness & money.
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(01-09-2018 )Mrkentee Wrote: What about your oil pump? I was thinking of that, too.
Should I change the oil pump? I think I should probably do the trans also.
I wouldn't worry about your oil pump. The ISX oil pump is just a basic gear pump, and there isn't much to go wrong with them, so I'd leave it until inframe time. Besides, an oil pan can be removed in very little time compared to a tranny, so if it's the funds you're trying to figure, I'd do the clutch for sure, then if funds/time allow the tranny now, and later drop the oil pan if/when you experience oil pressure/flow problems. I've had this truck's tranny out only once before for a clutch job. The oil pan, I've had off about 5 times for routine inspections, it's really no biggie to R&R a pan.
RE: Flywheel housing gasket replacement - the missing link - 01-10-2018
The transmission ? ... About redoing " mrkentee "....
Now I am not trying to be a smart ass here , honestly .
Yes maybe you should do it but here a a few facts
We pull very heavy up here 140,000 lbs , is very common on soft hiways , off-road , mountains .
Again I am not saying a lot of people don't work there trucks , don't get me wrong !
I pull 140,000 every day off road in bad country all over northern Alberta and b.c in bad conditions . What I do is light weight compared to this guy ^^^^^^^^.
My dad has 2.8 million on his transmission pulling this kinds of weight , tanks , and moving rigs which is all very hard on sh!t . It's never been touched , although the original tran blow up at 200 k due to driver error. his back diff has never been opened up .
So I geuss what I am trying to say is sometimes just go with it to a certain point . I know guys every time they do a clutch they put in a reman trans . Would I "no " never ... Would I have it gone though at same point yes . But with a little care and love some things can really amaze you at there longitivtiy. yes I would do your clutch . I would not worry about your trans unless you have a reason too. The next time you pull everything apart ,then I would . I really don't know sh!t about most things , including trying to run a business . But I would not put $ in to the trans at that point in time , again unless you have reason to believe you should . I don't know your truck .
I hope my little rant makes a little sense to a different side of things . Also I don't know the type of work you do either .
RE: Flywheel housing gasket replacement - Rawze - 01-10-2018
(01-10-2018 )Hammerhead Wrote: ...
So I found a mystery O-ring in the oil cavity at the back of the block pushed partially into the drivers side oil rifle! Talk about feeling jitters! It's clearly been in there for quite a while as it was hardened solid. I have used Baldwin filters for several years and wonder if this is one of the O-rings from the infamous shitty batch of Fleetguard oil filters that were famously coming loose and plugging up piston cooling jet nozzles and taking out motors. I pulled an O-ring out of a Baldwin filter sitting in the waste filter bin, and sure enough I can ply it to match the inner dia of this O-ring. I have no idea what F/G uses now, but the Baldwin filter O-ring is easily twice as thick as this one, so I'm still not 100% sure, but I am 110% sure damn happy I found it when I did! There were wear marks from the machined edges of the oil rifle, and this O-ring would certainly have broken in a matter of time and I'm sure cost me a lot of sadness & money.
...
I have seen a lot of engines with melted pistons due to that mystery o-ring. It is a good thing you found it before it broke apart and took out a piston.
I have always used fleetguard filters because of this. They replaced the filter design where that o-ring resides into a full-on gasket with flaps to prevent this very thing.
Other manufacturers put thicker o-rings like the one you pointed out there in that filter... not sure if I trust it though, so that is why I only use the more expensive fleece-guard now.
RE: Flywheel housing gasket replacement - Hammerhead - 01-10-2018
(01-10-2018 )Rawze Wrote: I have seen a lot of engines with melted pistons due to that mystery o-ring. It is a good thing you found it before it broke apart and took out a piston.
I have always used fleetguard filters because of this. They replaced the filter design where that o-ring resides into a full-on gasket with flaps to prevent this very thing.
Other manufacturers put thicker o-rings like the one you pointed out there in that filter... not sure if I trust it though, so that is why I only use the more expensive fleece-guard now.
I can assure you that I sat there under my truck for at least 15 seconds in pure astonishment when I found it.
I sat and enjoyed a beer that evening for sure, thinking of how lucky I was that I found this when I did, instead of finding it the hard way.
Cummins threads the outer diameter of the filter instead of the spigot where the filtered oil returns into the engine. IMHO the threaded spigot is a superior design as it eliminates the need for this O-ring/failure point.
Like I said, I don't have any F/G filters to look at to verify, and this may well be "the fix", but this is the O-ring I believe was the issue. I believe, no proof whatsoever, that the mystery O-ring is located where my finger is pointing. The thick O-ring is the one that has been removed from this Baldwin filter, and the mystery is of course the broken one in the pic.
[attachment=3431]
So the lesson here is, check every removed filter and verify this O-ring is in tact, and in place. If it is not, be extremely concerned as the only thing that can catch it before a piston cooling jet is the oil rifle! Because it is now POST FILTER!!!
If anyone is doing a clutch job and has used Fleetgaurd filters for many years, as I did before I switched suppliers, for peace of mind you may want to spend a few extra hours of labour to replace the flywheel housing gasket to make sure that you DO NOT have one of these time bombs just waiting to bite your backside. I do MOST of my own services, and I like to think I'm quite careful, but I can assure you that I WILL be stepping up my vigilance of checking filters for this O-ring.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating for Baldwin filters, I switched suppliers because of convenience. If they would have had carried F/G, that's still what is be using. the missing link gave me a few Wix filters to try as that's what he uses, and his oil is cleaner than mine, so I'm going to try them, cut them apart when changed, and post pics and reviews based on what I find.
RE: Flywheel housing gasket replacement - Ragindirt - 01-10-2018
Lost my clutch brake yesterday; dinged up the input shift some, and granny is getting harder to select down to low. 10 speed in truck currently, if synchronizing gear is shot or any other gears I am opting to install a 15, anybody have a name of good eaton shop in the middle of US.
Don't pull 100K but 5 days a week 84K+ through the flint hills.
RE: Flywheel housing gasket replacement - the missing link - 01-10-2018
(01-10-2018 )Ragindirt Wrote: Lost my clutch brake yesterday; dinged up the input shift some, and granny is getting harder to select down to low. 10 speed in truck currently, if synchronizing gear is shot or any other gears I am opting to install a 15, anybody have a name of good eaton shop in the middle of US.A 15 is good , lots of bottom gears but the top end sucks . Personally I would go with a 18 or a 13 . The 13 you can't spilt the bottom side but can the top . I would be lost without a 18 anymore .
Don't pull 100K but 5 days a week 84K+ through the flint hills.
I had a 15 in a body job sand truck , great in that application because you always could have proper rpm for speed you wanted for the pto . The top side just took a little longer climbing hills .
With that being side all I have ever ran are 13/18 .
I would pull out of the yard with that 15 and jake shift a pile of gears and the guys would look out of the shop figuring I was doing 40 km/ hr and I would just be crawing , hahaha
P.s a 18 or 13 will give you a 250 rpm split a 15 on the top side is 500 rpm ... That's a big difference
RE: Flywheel housing gasket replacement - Ragindirt - 01-10-2018
(01-10-2018 )the missing link Wrote:(01-10-2018 )Ragindirt Wrote: Lost my clutch brake yesterday; dinged up the input shift some, and granny is getting harder to select down to low. 10 speed in truck currently, if synchronizing gear is shot or any other gears I am opting to install a 15, anybody have a name of good eaton shop in the middle of US.A 15 is good , lots of bottom gears but the top end sucks . Personally I would go with a 18 or a 13 . The 13 you can't spilt the bottom side but can the top . I would be lost without a 18 anymore .
Don't pull 100K but 5 days a week 84K+ through the flint hills.
I had a 15 in a body job sand truck , great in that application because you always could have proper rpm for speed you wanted for the pto . The top side just took a little longer climbing hills .
With that being side all I have ever ran are 13/18 .
I would pull out of the yard with that 15 and jake shift a pile of gears and the guys would look out of the shop figuring I was doing 40 km/ hr and I would just be crawing , hahaha
P.s a 18 or 13 will give you a 250 rpm split a 15 on the top side is 500 rpm ... That's a big difference
Thanks, thought about a 13, but I believe cores are getting scarce.
RE: Flywheel housing gasket replacement - mastergregor - 01-10-2018
(01-06-2018 )Hammerhead Wrote:(01-06-2018 )mastergregor Wrote: Quick question hammerhead, what did you use to jack up the rear of the motor to take the flywheel housing off? Single jack setup or some kind of double jack contraption? Also, where did you jack it up, on the oil pan flange or some place else? Thanks in advance.
I'm at moms for the w/end, I'll post pics of who, what, where, and how on Monday for ya.
But 2 bottle jacks, oil pan removed, and on the flat flange along where the pan would mount with thin wood shims so it's not steel on steel.
Because I have them, the jacks are on 4' long hernia blocks* to built a solid foundation as I have the truck up on 5" of blocks at the rear and on 8" of Jack stands on the front to make more room and working underside more conducive for a fat bastard with short arms...and to also make enough clearance to get the tranny out from under the truck to service it.
*Hernia blocks are 10" X 12" X4' hardwood blocks I use for loads that weigh 260# each, hence the term, they'll give you one if you aren't ready for it
Nice setup, I guess you have calibrated both jacks to a super precise travel speed and pump action lift height :) JK, of course, I was planning on using a solid 2x2 square steel, and a single ram jack, across the same points as you have. I was not sure if it would clear the bottom end of the engine, and not get in the way of flywheel housing.
Thanks for the info!