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+--- Thread: Cm 870 cry for help (/showthread.php?tid=4881)
RE: Cm 870 cry for help - Lonestar10 - 08-02-2019
Inactive 49 Amber Power Lost without Ignition Off - Data errati c, inter mittent or incorre ct 25122627
sounds more like the ECM is dieing. tons of power issue codes. unless the ecm was pulled off the engine and thats the reason for some i think theres more than just bad programming involved.
RE: Cm 870 cry for help - SIDE_SHOW - 08-02-2019
(08-02-2019 )Lonestar10 Wrote: Inactive 49 Amber Power Lost without Ignition Off - Data errati c, inter mittent or incorre ct 25122627
sounds more like the ECM is dieing. tons of power issue codes. unless the ecm was pulled off the engine and thats the reason for some i think theres more than just bad programming involved.
I wish there was a way for me to have seen when these were thrown the only codes this truck has thrown since I've had it that I know of are the ones on the first 2 pages minus the 0434 I read them on my road relay on the dash
Could bad bat cables cause any of these ? I've been having starting issues since the day I bought it and I'm about to replace the cables to the starter... or perhaps wiring harness it was a mess just hanging around everywhere when I got the truck... Since then I've zip tied everything up as nice as I could...
Also keep in mind that the guys that did the inframe the first time for the guy I bought the truck from didn't even have insite... After that engine threw a rod they put this one in and stuck the old ecm on it and sent it on its way and it's only been run about 40 or 50k since then... so I'm wondering if any of these are from the old engine ? I guess we will see what codes it throws in the coming weeks when I get my insite and other programs...
RE: Cm 870 cry for help - Chamberpains - 08-02-2019
You might as well just throw all those codes away. Most can be explained by bad programming. They shut off the signal to turn on the CEL but your engine is throwing the codes. Meaning, its screaming at you that things are wrong but you never see it.
When they flashed your ECM they should have cleaned all the codes out. We hope that Unilevers comes back with a clean bill of health for that program you have. Hopefully who ever did it doesn't do the same crap of suppressing the CEL.
Let us know what's going on after you run it for a bit and especially after you get Insite.
RE: Cm 870 cry for help - Rawze - 08-02-2019
(08-01-2019 )SIDE_SHOW Wrote: ...
there are other people besides the people on this forum who know and understand these engines
...
Sadly enough though, somehow the reality is that they are like finding a live unicorn in the wild ...
You my friend ... simply put,. have your head deep in the sand with that statement. All it sounds like to me is that ..
A). you were impatient.
b)> now you are trying to justify your actions on here and convince yourself that what you did was somehow "ok".
-- But I am not going to have comments like this on my forum simply because there are too many truck owners who suffer the fate of bad programming by "that guy who does great work off of FB" and "my engine suddenly runs great now because of him" stories + other claims ...
It is equivalent to someone saying they went to the cassino and hit the big jack-pot and proclaiming that everyone can get rich just the same way because they did it ... (only to find out a few month later they end up in jail because that cassino suckered you into laundering money illegally without you realizing it until it was way too late).
Here is the repeating problem I see, and the actual perspective of total dips$it move you just made with your engine ...
In all my years of helping people on here .. believe me, it has been in the thousands by now,.. and the many years of looking at thousands of ECU programs that have been done by literally hundreds of different people and tuning/delete shops by the droves ... I have seen only a few,.. (less than a single percent) -- a VERY VERY VERY FEW!!!! -- programs that were even half-way safe, nonetheless could be considered somewhat correct... by "people not of this forum".
It has nothing whatsoever to do with trying to promote anyone on here,.. I really REALLY could care less who did it!.. Seriously. There is nothing in it for me in trying to steer people away from the droves of idiot 'tuning expeerts' out there, who have half-a-dozen people (that are completely in the dark about engine tunning) claim they are great at it.
This place it totally free and I get nothing in return by any of the few on here who do things right. My only and single focus "is the truck and its health", nothing more. THE REASON WHY it seems that it is only the people of this forum that are the only ones who seem to be the few that are doing really decent work,.. is because THEY CAME TO ME AND MY FORUM SAYING TO THEMSELVES THAT THAT ENOUGH WAS ENOUGH, and wanted to learn how to do this stuff in its totality 100% CORRECTLY instead of only trying to learn just enough to get by so they can make money off it. -- THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE I AM LOOKING FOR, SIMPLY PUT!!!, AND I WILL HELP ANYONE WHO GENUINELY COMES ALONG WITH SUCH ATTITUDE WHO WANTS TO TAKE THE TIME TO LEARN IT THE RIGHT WAYS!!!. -- hence WHY there are also a lot of truck owners on here who can do their own engine programming as well.
(I guess it would lead to someone asking)..
-- WHAT qualifies ME/Rawze?. Some nobody, insignificant truck owner who does not even do engine tuning for a living at all? to be the guy that would dare to review, check, and have any kind of final say of what could be considered GOOD or BAD?.
BECAUSE THIS STUFF FALLS SQUARELY AND SEAMLESSLY INTO MY MANY YEARS OF AUTOMATED SYSTEM CONTROL BACKGROUND!.
That place right where that engine computer integrates into the rest of that engine, where it it meets the hardware, and the combustion process. That place is familiar territory to me. Combine that with spending many years actually going down the road-ways in my own equipment, studying every single setting in its computer. Every single line of code, every single system, all of its processes. Combine that with tearing into, or inspecting literally hundreds and hundreds of engines that have had that kind of programming in them already, and how it has effected the combustion process, how it has effected bearing wear, heat soak, efficiency, and all the other things that can be studied as a result. Combine that with access to information on these things that no one else has on them, so it can be referenced as a final say, or as backup to application theory. -- I am literally "that guy" who can look at raw hexadecimal data and instead of seeing numbers and symbols, I see that fuel table, or that sub-routine of calculation for an offset, or that reference offset to another reference that points over somewhere else, as deep as that hole may go, to eventually end up at the power correction table.. nonetheless you give me a proper piece of software to look at that file with, it then becomes dangerously familiar real fast.
I.E.> There is no place inside that engine computer (and most of the engine too) that I cannot explain how it works in whatever detail someone wants to discuss. Simply because I chose to learn it as a hobby towards understanding my own equipment. My trucking business and its profitability relies on such tings, so there is no reason not to invest time and energy into it as such.
I don't care someone "how they feel it runs",.. because it really does not matter. As a truck owner you have no absolute clue what is going on inside that engine computer, or if it is safe for the engine or not.... none whatsoever,.. and it is most likely that the person who programmed your ecm has no clue either.
Now in your particular case though ..... this game has even more odds stacked against it, not that I would want that on others, but this is the reality ...
ON A CM870 ENGINE IN PARTICULAR!!!! ...
They are a tricky beast indeed to get 100% correct. Simply because there are setting in that ECM in particular that can only be set live in its memory, while connected to the ecm, and those very important settings ARE NOT IN THE PROGRAM ITSELF. This makes the Cm870 particualrly difficult for those who do not understand this,.. and believe me, most those morons do not ... that is how the red engine maker designed it back in the day, and it it usually those settings (along with several others) that get missed, and cause the untimely demise of the turbo and eventually the engine itself. . -- Because of this, I ACTUALLY HAVE NOT SEEN A SINGLE CM870 PROGRAM THAT WAS CORRECT THAT WAS NOT DONE BY ONE OF THE 3 PEOPLE WHO ARE ON THIS FORUM to date... NOT A SINGLE ONE!.
Not that someone else could not eventually figure this out on their own (after all, I have been screaming this fact for a few years now on here about them),.. but I have not seen it yet... and that is saying a lot.
As a matter of fact, if it were not for me pointing out this same engine suffering mistake several years ago, where to look for it, and how to solve it, it is not not even likely any of the guys on this forum would have figured this out either. I was telling people that this was their mistake with the 870, back when the 870 was the most popular engine out there (I have been around a lot longer than people think with these things) ... -- All they knew was that something was a-miss inside that (what they thought at the time was an unstable ecm) something was actually wrong... They were all great people who actually wanted to make their own programming 100% safe and actually cared about their work and their customers truck engines above telling others about how good they were. - It is exactly that rare quality in someone that makes me want to help them, and hence WHY they are on this forum to this day doing what they do.
I spent several months with mommaburt, unilevers, gearhead, and every other person who wanted to solve this equation on their own, guiding them along the way each time. -- ALWAYS IN EACH CASE FOR ABSOLUTELY FREE (just in case someone was wondering), helping them. Their only sacrifice is that they wanted to do the right thing for the people of this forum and their engines to the best of what can be done... BECAUSE IF THEY WERE ANYTHING LESS< I WOULD HAVE KICKED THEM OFF HERE A LONG TIME AGO!!!
- YOU SEE,... I have locked in in my head,.. every single facet of what goes on inside these red engine's CPU's,.. in so much detail that it would make the red engine makers designers head spin at this point,.. I am not kidding, not bragging,.. it is simply that way... BUT I DO NOT DO ENGINE TUNING FOR A LIVING -- I RUN MY TRUCK DOWN THE ROADS AND MAKE A MY PAYCHECK INSTEAD!!! -- If there were something in it for me,.. I would have taken advantage of it LONG LONG AGO!
ALL I want to do is help educate others on this reality of nonsense out here with all this 'delete' garbage so that they do not run their trucking business into the ground by trading DPF issues away for engine failure issues... keeping them away from EXACTLY WHAT YOU JUST DID! so that others do not suffer the same ill-fate of false hope that these shops prey on out here.
--That being said,.. I ALWAY give others the benefit of the doubt, maybe because it is my own twisted sense of false hope that some day others besides the victims that have found my forum,.. don't have to suffer this fate of bad programming out there that is beyond a problem in our trucking industry.
So --- I WOULD BE WORRIED LIKE ALL F#$#$KING HELL .. ABOUT WHAT SOMEONE HAS DONE TO THE INSIDES OF YOUR ENGINE COMPUTER--<<<
.. always ... until I see the program that was stuck into their ecm.... and like I said .. of the thousands of programs I have looked at with people .. there have only been less than a dozen over all the years I have been looking at them .. that were even half-way right. And not a single one for an 870 yet by the way ... but even so, the irony is that of those few, they were out of date copies/versions of programs that came from trucks that the few recommended people of this forum did in the past somewhere.
-- YOU need to get that program looked at in that thing A.S.A.P.! and hope like hell you did not just waste your money like all the other thousands of people that have come on here in the past, just like you that have done exactly what you just did.
RE: Cm 870 cry for help - Rawze - 08-02-2019
(08-01-2019 )SIDE_SHOW Wrote: Here are the faults I had before I haven't had any since but I have only ran the truck about 50 miles what do you guys think? Keep in mind that I just had the egr valve and turbo off to do the exhaust manifold gaskets
A lot of those codes are related to the typical turbo derate and overheating seen on 870's with someone unplugging the egr system on it, and not re-programming it properly.
Sad part is that the damage and its eventual failure may already have been set in motion, as those codes have hundreds of occurrences. What is eve worse, is that a lot of the horrible delete programs for the 870, they block those codes from coming up in the dash, so I hope like hell that is not what was just done during its questionable re-programming, as any moron with access to the insides of that ecm can simply magically make those codes go away by blocking the ecm's ability of showing them in the dash (most bad deletes they do this), so therefore I have zero faith in your codes suddenly going away, and you should too.
In the mean time...
* What is the boost levels it is getting up to in a hard pull?
* What does the pyro look like?
* Is the oil temp going up in the 235-240+ range on a hard pull?
* how many miles does it go after an oil change before the oil starts turning black?
* have you taken steps to actually fix that truck? or are you just driving it around with all those problems?
-- those are some of the tings you can look for until you can get it looked at properly.
- If you end up in atlanta area, you can stop by and I will look at the program with you, show you exactly what someone has done if no one else can get to it.
RE: Cm 870 cry for help - Lonestar10 - 08-02-2019
I hadn't seen the part about the old engine and having a new engine that they stuck the old ECM on is the new engine the same CPL as the old if it's not your old ECM might have been trying to control parts that weren't the same on the new engine as in the injectors cams and other parts might have been different on the old engine hence why your truck ran like crap.
RE: Cm 870 cry for help - SIDE_SHOW - 08-02-2019
(08-02-2019 )Rawze Wrote:(08-01-2019 )SIDE_SHOW Wrote: Here are the faults I had before I haven't had any since but I have only ran the truck about 50 miles what do you guys think? Keep in mind that I just had the egr valve and turbo off to do the exhaust manifold gaskets
A lot of those codes are related to the typical turbo derate and overheating seen on 870's with someone unplugging the egr system on it, and not re-programming it properly.
Sad part is that the damage and its eventual failure may already have been set in motion, as those codes have hundreds of occurrences. What is eve worse, is that a lot of the horrible delete programs for the 870, they block those codes from coming up in the dash, so I hope like hell that is not what was just done during its questionable re-programming, as any moron with access to the insides of that ecm can simply magically make those codes go away by blocking the ecm's ability of showing them in the dash (most bad deletes they do this), so therefore I have zero faith in your codes suddenly going away, and you should too.
In the mean time...
* What is the boost levels it is getting up to in a hard pull?
* What does the pyro look like?
* Is the oil temp going up in the 235-240+ range on a hard pull?
* how many miles does it go after an oil change before the oil starts turning black?
* have you taken steps to actually fix that truck? or are you just driving it around with all those problems?
-- those are some of the tings you can look for until you can get it looked at properly.
- If you end up in atlanta area, you can stop by and I will look at the program with you, show you exactly what someone has done if no one else can get to it.
It was my father's truck before he had his strokes we got it last year and he ran it about 1 or 2 trips a month the way it has been... now that my cm2250 has dropped a liner I have to use this one so I'm trying to work through all these issues... The tube that runs around the back of the block from the egr cooler to the intake had a huge hole in it above the starter causing the starter to get heat soaked and also causing a huge boost leak... After he tuned it the boost leak was major blowing out of that hole I asked my dad the highest he ever saw the boost he said 20 maybe 22 I put a plug in the intake where that tube goes in last night and that took care of the boost leak I was bobtail and built 38lbs of boost in the big hole... The oil temps before were out of sight 240 or above almost all the time bobtail or loaded and the coolant temp rarely went below 200-205 even bobtail... I haven't ran the truck enough to see what its doing now but the short 50 miles I've driven it bobtail the oil temps and coolant temp haven't even gone over 200 yet... The oil would turn black pretty quick if I recall I know it's black now and I was about to do a full service on it... I have been taking the steps since he got the truck only problem is we couldn't always be at home at the same time... But I need to get it correct before I leave
RE: Cm 870 cry for help - SIDE_SHOW - 08-02-2019
(08-02-2019 )Lonestar10 Wrote: I hadn't seen the part about the old engine and having a new engine that they stuck the old ECM on is the new engine the same CPL as the old if it's not your old ECM might have been trying to control parts that weren't the same on the new engine as in the injectors cams and other parts might have been different on the old engine hence why your truck ran like crap.
The cpl #s were different and that is what I was thinking as well
RE: Cm 870 cry for help - SIDE_SHOW - 08-02-2019
Ok... The truck ran great last night after I got the boost leaks fixed and all that but was still a little rough at idle I figured I would pull the actuators apart today and clean them up with non chlorinated brake cleaner and check them out according to rawzes write up... I pulled them off one at a time and took them apart checked the step in the plunger all felt good just spring no delay... Put it back together and went on to the next one to all 4 I went to fire it up let the fuel pump cycle 2 times to reprime and got it started and it is 1000x worse.. where could I have messed up going back together with them?