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RE: Helping Waterloo out with an inframe ... - Rawze - 04-08-2018
-- Ok, so we tore the engine down today and found out what was wrong with it...
[attachment=3802]
Besides the parts for a smaller tier engine in it, we also discovered that the counter-bore he asked for never happened. It looks like 800+k miles of wear on the block at the mid-stops and that is the reason why he needed the inframe the first time. No machining was done at all. It appears that they simply took the engine apart and slapped in a new piston liner kit, head etc.
--- The problem now is that the liners were dancing because of all the step wear that never got fixed. Most of the liners were leaning to the passenger side by at least 0.002". Here is what we measured when compressing the liners ...
[attachment=3798]
This caused the liners to eat into the new head pretty deep (several thousandths in places) ...
[attachment=3799]
[attachment=3801]
[attachment=3800]
So,... he will need an overhaul kit, a new head, the counter-boring that got missed, and a set of 0.020" shims to get this right. the only problem now with this is that he will need to figure out what kit to get. If he gets the stealershit to replace the 2 incorrect cams and injectors with the correct ones, then he can get the right overhaul kit for it, but if he has to stay with the lower HP cams and injectors, then he will have to order the lower HP overhaul kit. What a mess.
Myself, I blame the actual failure completely on the fact that it was never counter-bored properly the first time it was apart. This engine had more than 800,000 miles on it at 600HP and a lot of step wear that you could simply SEE with your eyes, nonetheless have to measure. They KNEW it had problems with combustion gases getting into the coolant. You would have thought that someone would have at least LOOKED at all the obvious step wear that we saw in it as soon as the liners came out. - If this had been done properly, the truck would not be in my drive-way being torn down a second time right now. This missed step in the process has caused all of this downward spiral and nothing else. this engine was doomed from the day it left the shop regardless of the fact it has some incorrect parts in it. -- This is what a top dollar $40,000 inframe at a dealershit looks like first class!. - They can have that s$it!. This is exactly WHY I always fix my junk myself.
RE: Helping Waterloo out with an inframe ... - dhirocz - 04-09-2018
...the messed up thing is, if there was a trouble code for a bad counterbore, I bet it would have been done.
You would think they would teach these techs the importance of the counterbore. It's clear to me that most of these techs are really just parts changers...unable to see past a scanner when diagnosing a problem.
I'm still curious about what they are willing to do to make this right. I certainly hope they do something to make this right.
And just think, MY company refused to help me with an engine unless it was done at Cummins because they are 'certified'. What a crock of shi#t. Years back when I worked at Firestone during that explorer tire recall, I had one of the executives hand me the answer sheet when I was taking my certification exams...so I would be 'certified'. Never used it and passed with flying colors without it. Likewise, I can jerk off like a champ too, don't need to be certified to do that either. As you can see, people get lulled into this false sense of security with the word when it doesn't mean anything...it's turned into an abused corporate term.
I'm glad somebody is stepping up where the so called experts flat out failed. Proof in a morally bankrupt and greedy industry that there might be a little hope still left out there for us. What is going on in this industry is immoral and in some ways downright criminal.
RE: Helping Waterloo out with an inframe ... - Hammerhead - 04-09-2018
Ya know, when a couple owner/operators can do a superior inframe *IN A DRIVEWAY!!! no less, to an Authorized Dealership, with Certified Journeyman staff...
I dunno, perhaps dealerships should be pulled?
Perhaps Journeyman Cert's/License should be pulled?
If we were this negligent while doing our job, our insurance would drop our policies, the record would probably mean other insurance companies wouldn't even consider issuing policies...
Hell, in all reality if we were this negligent and killed someone, we would be criminally charged!
Cummins should be ashamed of this. This Certified Cummins Dealership shop is a representative of them, and is frankly tarnishing their brand.
Waterloo, I hope they come good for you in some way.
This is a violation of trust.
This was a misrepresentation of professionalism.
This is quite frankly fraud.
And the sad part is, they hold the ultimate get out of jail free card because of the unauthorized modification, even through we all can see that was clearly not what caused the failure in the first place.
This makes me sick.
I feel for you dude...
*absolutely no disrespect intended towards Rawze's driveway, I'd happily choose to inframe my motor in said driveway...
just sayin
RE: Helping Waterloo out with an inframe ... - dhirocz - 04-09-2018
...I'll take the two guys who care about their quality of work and know what they are doing well before the guy punching a time clock. That's why I'm a diy guy.
Like I have said before to some of my friends, look at this as a source of empowerment. While this looks very bad on the dealership and it should, Waterloo is now getting a first class education on his engine, and without a doubt is learning a ton that will make him that much less reliant on these crooks. For that, I'm envious.
Caveat emptor - Waterloo - 04-09-2018
Guys, I am still in shock at what is going on here. Rawze asked me if I wanted to do the latest status write up, I said "no", as I am having a heck of a time wrapping my head around all of this. We get up and work, very little if any time to think about any of this, I am just hoping for the best right now and eternally grateful for what Rawze and his family are doing for me.
The motor is apart, laying on a few tables, etc. Rawze called this the minute the head was off. After measuring the liner heights, he was 100% positive at what we would find, and unfortunately for me, he was correct. And yes, I am learning quite a bit, but nowhere near up to speed as to where I should be.
I was naive, look the word up, being "naive" is not a good thing, or place to be. I tried to do the right thing, I had both Rawze and Unilever helping my uneducated rear end when I was in the shop having this expensive abortion. I "thought" the mechanic was doing his job, I asked about counter boring, and was told that would be done, asked about shimming the liners, who will cut the block, etc. Turns out nothing was done, nothing was repaired and all of the wrong parts were installed. You cannot make this sheet up! LOL! Yes, LOL! This is so tragic that it is funny! The stuff you only read about and thank God it is not you. Well, the joke is on me, and trust me, this is not good comedy, this is criminal.
Now, what do we do? Today we should find out if the dealer helps, or I leave here with a 450hp motor and a lawsuit. At this point, I am not even mad, I am just rolling with all of this, getting mad will not help the situation or get my truck repaired with the correct parts. I honestly do not know what else I can do, trying to keep a level head, even though all of this is as embarrassing as hell.
Hopefully my travail with this truck will help someone down the road. Encourage others to learn their equipment, how to repair it and what not to do. Mechanic first, as everything else is now meaningless. What else can you do? And the sad part, who do you trust? The days of the old reliable Series 60 and N-14 are long gone, the simplicity of "it just works" has left the building. Yes, I am getting a very expensive education.
RE: Helping Waterloo out with an inframe ... - Chamberpains - 04-09-2018
This no help, but my good friend paid $36k to be educated in the Diesel repair field at 1 of those high end texas Vocational colleges and he's the 1st to admit he learned nothing of the real world. So at least your walking away with something tangible.....
Again, I know that was no help. Just a goofy aside. Keep hammering at it. I believe your making the right choices every step of the way. Your showing us all what true fortitude looks like.
RE: Helping Waterloo out with an inframe ... - DLC - 04-09-2018
dhirocz buying your own tools and manuals goes a long ways because of like you said, people who care. If someone's give a damn is busted or they haven't been trained right it gets expensive. I've been at the losing end of a bad BCIV rebuild. Not near as expensive as a ISX. I learned a lot and cost me $. I've also found when asking mechanics about dotting the i's and crossing the t's like Waterloo did they can get a bit butt-hurt that you may know possibly more than them. Some can really not give a shi#t after their pride has been hurt. I'm not saying that has happened here but to be mindful of it. My bedside manner may not be the best and have pissed off the odd "pro" wrench puller.
Props to Rawze for documenting on YouTube his own rebuild. It's helpful to understand the process and how to do it the correct way.
RE: Helping Waterloo out with an inframe ... - Waterloo - 04-09-2018
Talked to the dealer this morning... Got the manager on the phone, and first thing out of his mouth is what parts do you need and where do I send them! So, two new cams, overhaul kit and six new injectors headed to GA! I agreed to buy the head, which at this point, I do not care. Everything should be here shortly. Finally some good news!
RE: Helping Waterloo out with an inframe ... - Hammerhead - 04-09-2018
(04-09-2018 )Waterloo Wrote: Talked to the dealer this morning... Got the manager on the phone, and first thing out of his mouth is what parts do you need and where do I send them! So, two new cams, overhaul kit and six new injectors headed to GA! I agreed to buy the head, which at this point, I do not care. Everything should be here shortly. Finally some good news!
That is great to hear.
What sort of comments/reply did they make when they were informed that the counterbores were never cut, and the liner hadn't been shimmed?