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+--- Thread: Havig a bad day. CM2350 fuel pump failure. (/showthread.php?tid=1805)
Havig a bad day. CM2350 fuel pump failure. - Rawze - 06-03-2017
-- So I met a driver from the forum over at Mr. Hags a couple days ago. He was there because he was getting a check engine light whenever he pushed the truck up a hill and it got to about 30+ psi of boost. It would go away as soon as he let off it and so he drove it below 30-psi boost home,.. then out again for a trip to Chicago with a heavy trailer. He figuring he would just stop by Mr. Hags along his route, as his engine had been re-built by the stealershits a couple months back. Must be something simple or a sensor problem. - He went roughly 280 miles or so total from the time it started doing this until he got to Mr. Hags. Truck ran fine, it ran smooth even with the heavy trailer, and there were no signs of anything whatsoever wrong. It just had that pesky engine light coming on when the boost pressure was high, yet the truck pulled great.
I happened to go by there for other things and met the guy. Mr. Hag had just finished up repairing some issues with his fuel rail. Apparently when it was at his local stealershit for repairs, they left several fuel feed tubes going into the head severely under-torqued. It was clearly over-working the fuel pump and caused it to have a lot internal of excess flow back to the fuel tanks. The fuel rail pressure would not even hold pressure when the truck was shut off, it was so bad. Mr. Hag also said it had 19 recent counts of fuel pressure related codes. Surely this must be the trouble.
They tightened up all the fittings and checked it out again and it was back to normal. No rail pressure loss, not even 100 psi in one minute. - Surely that had to be it -- problem solved. -- -- (or maybe not?).
The guy grabbed his very heavy trailer and left out. He did not make it to the interstate before the CEL light came back on. Same problem when it reached 30 psi of boost. For a moment there, he just thought to himself that maybe he could just live with it, it was pulling the trailer fine, he will just go to Chicago and have it looked at again. -- He then decided to turn around last minute and maybe have Mr. Hag look a second time just to be safe.
-- VERY GOOD DECISION!!!
Mr. Hag left to go get a truck nearby and bring it back for some repairs. I was not sure how long he would be gone, and I happened to be there. I went out to the guys truck and check the codes it might have for the check engine light. That was the least I could do to try to help him. He was also becoming late for his departure time, and I think he was about to leave again. After all, it was running just fine outside of that CEL light.
He had 1 count of that infamous 559 fuel pressure code. -- "559-Injector Metering Rail 1 Pressure - Data Valid - Below Normal Operating Range - Moderately Severe Level"
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I stopped for a moment and thought,.. HMM,,... you only have the code when you try to make power,.. and it is that infamous code for a failing fuel pump,... and I said ...
DUDE, YOU SHOULD BE IN PANIC MODE!!!!!
That is the same exact symptoms and the same exact code you get when the fuel pump fails and IT DESTROYS THE ENTIRE ENGINE!!! -- He then replied,. the pump was checked a couple months ago. It looked great and it had the updated steel plungers. Nothing to panic over, it has already been taken care of ...
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Well,.. it is a good thing he had turned around, but in that 280 miles--- the damage was already done. This is what was found when the fuel pump came apart...
Here is the metal shavings in the fuel filter...
[attachment=2816]
And here is the failed pump...
[attachment=2815]
====
The pump HAD THE NEW-STYLE OF STEEL PLUNGERS!!!
> Now the engine has to come all apart, the oil pan is full of metal shavings, the oil pump is destroyed, the oil cooler full of metal, the oil thermostat full of metal, the filter bypass valve full of metal. The rod and main bearings will need to be replaced and a LOT OF DIFFICULT flushing of the entire oil flow passages through the entire engine have to be cleaned...-- WHAT A MESS!!!- A lot of the engine will have to be pulled apart to clean out this debris because of that failed pump!.
This guy would have not made it another 600 miles before the engine would have locked up, it totally destroyed -- YET AGIAN!
This guy had an inframe by the stealershits done that was a complete hack-job a few months back. He then had to get it re-done by a SECOND stealershit to try to straighten it out, only to be charged for all new rockers and cam yet THEY PUT BACK THE OLD ONES THAT WERE DESTROYING THE NEW CAM!!!!
Mr. Hag found his bad rockers and the guy even showed Mr. Hag the receipt where they charged him for all new rocker lever assemblies. -- OTHER TRIP to the stealershits to get the rockers replaced under warranty and many many arguments and the blame game later,.. he does not make it another month,,. and now this happens.
Talk about having a bad day,... WOW! I feel bad for him. Now he has to have his engine taken apart YET AGAIN after all this. - What a mess.
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Here is an older thread on this same subject: http://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=118&pid=654#pid654
RE: Havig a bad day. CM2350 fuel pump failure. - Waterloo - 06-03-2017
OH MY GOD! What does one say? Now the steel plungers are failing... What is the new game plan in this regard? Rebuild the fuel pump semi annually or quarterly? How can Cummins get away with this shi#t, and that is exactly what this is, shi#t. With engineering like this, I can see Cummins losing their class 8 business in its entirety. And they would deserve it.
RE: Havig a bad day. CM2350 fuel pump failure. - JMBT - 06-03-2017
So none of these problems existed until the ultra high pressure pump went on in 2010 on the first 2250's. Maybe they should backtrack to a lower common rail pressure? Does anyone know if Volvo motors have this problem? I have never owned one but I think they have been running these high fuel pressures for years, right?
RE: Havig a bad day. CM2350 fuel pump failure. - simon999 - 06-03-2017
What is mileage mark to rebuild replace fuel pump on 2350 ? To avoid this cathastrophic failure? I have 335000miles on the original pump now. This story sounds very scary.
RE: Havig a bad day. CM2350 fuel pump failure. - Rawze - 06-03-2017
(06-03-2017 )simon999 Wrote: What is mileage mark to rebuild replace fuel pump on 2350 ? To avoid this cathastrophic failure? I have 335000miles on the original pump now. This story sounds very scary.
I would suggest new plungers, tappets, and rollers every 400k miles or so. They seem to fail mostly between 400-500k mile range.
RE: Havig a bad day. CM2350 fuel pump failure. - dhirocz - 07-03-2017
Ouch. This is why I've never taken my truck to a dealer, and instead I'm working on the truck at the house this week.
Steel plungers we're in this motor? Rawze, I think I'll take your advice and keep my 871.
...and yes, I'd be furious if I paid for new parts and I never got them. Those kind of business practices are what lawsuits are made of.
You gotta feel for the guy though. These people are SUPPOSED to have your best interests in mind and are supposed to know what they are doing. What a shame.
RE: Havig a bad day. CM2350 fuel pump failure. - Rawze - 07-07-2017
As a follow-up to this...
it was the plungers that started to fail, but the rollers that caused all the destruction.
The engine had to be partially disassembled and flushed 9 TIMES ( about 110 - 120 gallons of cheap oil mixed with diesel fuel ) before shavings would stop pouring out of the engine and down into the oil pan. In just that 300 miles, the entire engine was buried in metal shavings. HIS ENGINE HAD the updated plungers and had the updated oil bypass valve. Makes me wonder what the oil filter is even for if so much shavings can get past the pump/filter and into the engine.
Mr. Hag has gotten quite good at saving these engines when they do this if it is caught early enough but even so, he said to me "What a royal Pain in the Arsse. You have to take it all apart down to the main castings (head stays on) and flush/force an oil/diesel mix through all the passages and put it back together, then run it, pull the pan again and look for shavings over and over and over to get it all out if you want to do it right."
They had to replace the pump, do the retrofit to the new style, replace the oil pump, oil cooler, and a few other components like the oil thermostat and oil bypass valve too. His nice new rod and main bearings all had to be replaced too. The shavings had already eaten them up as well.
RE: Havig a bad day. CM2350 fuel pump failure. - simon999 - 07-07-2017
If somebody updated his puel pump plungers couple months ago they probably did mistake and put 2250 plungers instead of 2350. Two months ago I was at cummins and the repair kit for was 2350 was not available. I just got my kit a month ago. And had to ship from cummins memphis factory. Also pump body has alignment pins for putting back tappets into pump. Pins have to be aligned to the tappet groves. These mistakes can make pump failure.
RE: Havig a bad day. CM2350 fuel pump failure. - Rawze - 07-07-2017
(07-07-2017 )simon999 Wrote: If somebody updated his puel pump plungers couple months ago they probably did mistake and put 2250 plungers instead of 2350. Two months ago I was at cummins and the repair kit for was 2350 was not available. I just got my kit a month ago. And had to ship from cummins memphis factory. Also pump body has alignment pins for putting back tappets into pump. Pins have to be aligned to the tappet groves. These mistakes can make pump failure.
In his case, nobody updated the pump. It came with the steel plungers from new. Fuel pump had about 420K miles on it if I remember correctly, was inspected a few months previous and looked fine at that time. Seems like they give no signs or warning when they are going to fail. someone once told me that engines built after may of 2013 I think, started getting the steel plungers from factory. Not 100% sure on this one.
I am wondering if some of those failures could not be caused by contaminants introduced during a filter change.