+- Rawze.com: Rawze's ISX Technical Discussion and more (http://rawze.com/forums)
+-- Forum: Big Truck Technical Discussion... (/forumdisplay.php?fid=1)
+--- Forum: Ask Your question... (/forumdisplay.php?fid=45)
+--- Thread: Which motor oil to use after in frame? (/showthread.php?tid=217)
Which motor oil to use after in frame? - Waterloo - 03-18-2016
I was at the shop getting the list together for the in-frame on my 2008 ProStar with the 600hp ISX CM-871 with @m*m^2, I use the Fleetguard Oil Filter LF9009, oil is still "visually" clean at 12,000 miles...
My serviceman asked me what kind of oil I want in the truck when it is completed. I told him Shell Rotella regular dino, as it has the proper additives that the motor needs. Now my question, stick with the Shell or switch oils? Not so much for the name brand but additive package. And I am not interested in going full synthetic, that stuff is just to costly and I do not like to go longer than 15,000 miles between oil changes. The truck is getting a brand new head from Cummins, and brand new cams, along with the full monty internally liners, rods, mains, bearings, pistons, etc...
Is there something out there with a better, or more complete additive package that I should be looking at? I also like to use the gear oil that Rawze suggests using, http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000M8RYMC?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage
As far as I can tell, by old records from previous owners I found at Speedco, the truck has used Shell Rotella most of its life.
Any thoughts?
RE: Which motor oil to use after in frame? - Marajin - 03-18-2016
With the mandate removed, your options are a lot more expanded towards choosing engine oils.
Mack, back in the day, made a very high standard for recommended oils that was difficult to even qualify for. It was called the 'Mack EO-N Premium Plus' standard
I would think that an oil that is listed to meet this standard would be of premium quality and provide the engine with the best longevity possible.
[attachment=1309]
here is another good article from back then. http://www.constructionequipment.com/ci-4-oil-chemistry-choices-and-concerns
RE: Which motor oil to use after in frame? - bazdan902 - 03-24-2016
I recently switched to Chevron Delo 400LE as I wasn't completely satisfied with the additive package on the Rotella lately that I was getting. Zinc was always pretty low.. Seen it as low as 990ppm once.. Jury is still out on the Delo, should be getting first sample back soon!
RE: Which motor oil to use after in frame? - Waterloo - 03-24-2016
(03-24-2016 )bazdan902 Wrote: I recently switched to Chevron Delo 400LE as I wasn't completely satisfied with the additive package on the Rotella lately that I was getting. Zinc was always pretty low.. Seen it as low as 990ppm once.. Jury is still out on the Delo, should be getting first sample back soon!
Which motor are you running, CM-871? I was wondering about the additive package, and I know that these oil companies do change things up. I need to dig into the cummins recommendations for the CM-871 and start shopping oils.
RE: Which motor oil to use after in frame? - Rawze - 03-24-2016
The optimum Zinc level on an engine oil is roughly 1400 ppm. 1200 would be the minimum.
epa has been in a war against this for a long time. Very soon, no oils will have that much zinc.
Quoted from epa documents...
" The useful life definitions for 2004 and newer heavy-duty diesel engines are included below from the CFR. As you can see, the useful life is defined both in terms of mileage and years of operation. For example, the useful life definition for a heavy heavy-duty dieselvehicle is 10 years or 435,000 miles, whichever comes first. In the case of a dump truck, it may be that the vehicle will reach 10 years of operation (i.e., full useful life) prior to reaching the mileage defined useful life of 435,000 miles."
According to them, 435,000 miles is all an engine should last.
Motor oil, CJ-4 or CI-4? - Waterloo - 03-24-2016
I'm over at QuickServe looking at motor oil recommendations... Now, I have {**Content removed by protection bot**} on my CM-871, she is having an in form right now, so which motor oil to use? I pulled the below from QuickServe... Am I reading this correctly, and should use a CI-4 motor oil? Or has this changed? I have been using regular Shell Rotella for years, but is this the correct motor oil today for my motor? Have the formulas changed greatly enough to switch oil so that I get the correct additive package? I also use the gear lube that Rawze recommends. And correct me if I am wrong, we are looking for higher zinc levels in our additives for the CM-871, correct?
From QuickServe
-----------------------
Engines with Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) and Aftertreatment
Engines using EGR and exhaust aftertreatment must operate on ultra-low sulfur diesel fuel (15 ppm sulfur). Use of oils meeting the requirements of Cummins® Engineering Standard 20081 will provide the longest maintenance intervals for the aftertreatment system.
------------------------
Engines with EGR, but without Aftertreatment
Engines with EGR can use lubricants meeting Cummins® Engineering Standard 20078 (API CI-4). Cummins® Engineering Standard 20081 (API CJ-4) can be used when 15 ppm sulfur fuels is also used.
If oils meeting Cummins® Engineering Standard 20078 are not available, Cummins® Engineering Standard 20071, 20076, or 20077 can be used in EGR equipped engines at reduced oil drain intervals.
-----------------------
Engines without EGR
Oils meeting Cummins® Engineering Standard 20078 (API CI-4) are compatible with Cummins® Engineering Standard 20071, 20075, 20076, or 20077 and can continue to be used in engines without EGR, as described in Table 1.
RE: Which motor oil to use after in frame? - Waterloo - 03-24-2016
(03-24-2016 )Rawze Wrote: The optimum Zinc level on an engine oil is roughly 1400 ppm. 1200 would be the minimum.
epa has been in a war against this for a long time. Very soon, no oils will have that much zinc.
Quoted from epa documents...
" The useful life definitions for 2004 and newer heavy-duty diesel engines are included below from the CFR. As you can see, the useful life is defined both in terms of mileage and years of operation. For example, the useful life definition for a heavy heavy-duty dieselvehicle is 10 years or 435,000 miles, whichever comes first. In the case of a dump truck, it may be that the vehicle will reach 10 years of operation (i.e., full useful life) prior to reaching the mileage defined useful life of 435,000 miles."
According to them, 435,000 miles is all an engine should last.
Rotella T Triple is roughly 1200 - 1300 ppm Zinc according to various sources I have found. Is there a better oil to run with a higher zinc count? Or stick with Rotella T Triple and your recommended gear lube that I have been using.
RE: Which motor oil to use after in frame? - Rawze - 03-24-2016
CI-4 oils are better oils but Mr.epa does not allow them to be sold in quantities less than 55 gallon drums any more I think.
CI-4 oils have too high zinc levels and wash out the precious metals in after-treatment systems, making it harder and harder for them to do their job.
CJ-4 oils were the solution to this,.. but now Mr.epa is still not happy, so they are stripping even more away from oils by 2017.
Soon, gear oils will be the only oils left with decent additives in them, but you got to watch out for sulphides in them if more than about 10 - 12% is put into your engine.
I think it is going to come down to people buying their own additives and putting them in before it is over with. only problem with that is there are more "snake oil" products out there than good ones.
RE: Which motor oil to use after in frame? - Waterloo - 03-24-2016
(03-24-2016 )Rawze Wrote: CI-4 oils are better oils but Mr.epa does not allow them to be sold in quantities less than 55 gallon drums any more I think.
CI-4 oils have too high zinc levels and wash out the precious metals in after-treatment systems, making it harder and harder for them to do their job.
CJ-4 oils were the solution to this,.. but now Mr.epa is still not happy, so they are stripping even more away from oils by 2017.
Soon, gear oils will be the only oils left with decent additives in them, but you got to watch out for sulphides in them if more than about 10 - 12% is put into your engine.
I think it is going to come down to people buying their own additives and putting them in before it is over with. only problem with that is there are more "snake oil" products out there than good ones.
Rawze, the Sta-Lube gear oil I am using, do you have any info on the actual additives in it? I have been all over the manufacturers website and they have no info as far as what is actually in their product. Do you know what is in it additive wise. I know it is good for our cams due to the copper and I have been using it for well over a year now with no issues. One jug of Sta-Lube at every oil change, roughly every 15,000 miles.
The pan on my motor was dropped yesterday, and the insides look factory fresh, no visual signs of anything crazy. I suspect the head is going to look the same.
So, stick with the Rotella T Triple and the Sta-Lube? Or is there something better out there? If I am going to change oils, now is the time.
Oh, what motor oil are you using?