+- Rawze.com: Rawze's ISX Technical Discussion and more (http://rawze.com/forums)
+-- Forum: Big Truck Technical Discussion... (/forumdisplay.php?fid=1)
+--- Forum: ISX Related Help (/forumdisplay.php?fid=68)
+--- Thread: ISX CM871 New Head Or Rebuild Old Head (/showthread.php?tid=308)
Pages: 1 2
ISX CM871 New Head Or Rebuild Old Head - same101us - 04-09-2016
Hi everyone
I am working on a cm871 that was loosing coolant fast. I removed head and found a blown headgasket. One of my camshaft is junk because 3 lobes show extreme wear and the 3 rocker arms show same wear. The cam bearings are showing copper. Engine has over 700000 miles on it. What would you guys recommend I do with the head. Buy a new or reman head or rebuild my old head. I think I can get it rebuilt at a local machine shop for around 1500 to 1000 dallars.
RE: ISX CM871 New Head Or Rebuild Old Head - Waterloo - 04-09-2016
I am in the process of an in frame @ 900,000 miles. After much debate, and talking with guys like Rawze and Unilever here at Rawze.com, we are going with a factory fresh new head, not a reman. That was due to advice Unilever gave me over the phone, as he stated that the Cummins factory remans were giving them trouble. I trust Unilever on this one and will heed his call. The head arrived this past Wednesday along with the two new Cummins cams. It was not cheap, the cams came in at $1450 ea and the head at $3800. I would go with the new head, but that is just me. I plan on keeping this truck, as it is paid for and in very good shape.
To add, the shop doing my work, and other shops that I interviewed to do this in frame of mine, all advised against going with a reman too... And all to a man stated to not attempt to rebuild my head locally. They all stated they have been down that road, and it never ends well, these heads seem to fail in short order. That was not one shop, but all of the shops I spoke with, one of which has the shop to rebuild heads.
RE: ISX CM871 New Head Or Rebuild Old Head - Erics diesel - 04-09-2016
Just finished mine up today and I put a new head on it its a good piece of mind that it's new with no issues
RE: ISX CM871 New Head Or Rebuild Old Head - Rawze - 04-10-2016
(04-09-2016 )same101us Wrote: Hi everyone
I am working on a cm871 that was loosing coolant fast. I removed head and found a blown headgasket. One of my camshaft is junk because 3 lobes show extreme wear and the 3 rocker arms show same wear. The cam bearings are showing copper. Engine has over 700000 miles on it. What would you guys recommend I do with the head. Buy a new or reman head or rebuild my old head. I think I can get it rebuilt at a local machine shop for around 1500 to 1000 dallars.
I am out here to make money, and not waste it -- So I do not say this lightly ---
The rule of thumb is that if for ANY REASON! -- You have to remove the head and you have more then 450k miles on it,... replace it with a new one!.
I cannot tell you how many people I have come across that claim they had their head refurbished by a shop,.. only to tell me that they are having problems again in short order. -- Those heads are throw-away and cost about the same as a turbocharger.
The number one reason you do not re-man it is because the valve guides wear out, and the valves sit high in their seats as they age,.. and eventually it snaps a valve tip. Re-manning the head and re-doing the valve guides makes them ALL ride high,.. and then you have trouble later with engine brake clearances etc.
The second reason that you do not re-use a head is that 4 out of 5 will come back bad after a magnaflux and pressure test. this is an expensive process to have done,.. and then you add on top of that, the cost of having it re-manned,.. New bearings, new injector cups, new valves, new springs, all valve guide seals etc. replaced, and all the other work that has to be put in it to actually do the job right,.. GUESS WHAT!--- you have just as much in the head as buying a new one!. -- I can just about guarantee that anyone who is re-manning them for only $1000 bucks or so,.. IS NOT DOING A THOROUGH JOB!. -PERIOD! -- it costs about that just to have it magnaflux and pressure tested etc. alone, and if your not doing this,.. your wasting your time completely considering the fail rate as they age.
The difference in costs is not worth bing in the middle of Montana or northern Canada and it -20 outside, you relying on that truck to run and get you down the road,.. and it fail because you tried to save a few dollars!,-- Just not worth it.
RE: ISX CM871 New Head Or Rebuild Old Head - trucklogger2 - 04-20-2016
Good advice from experience and thanks. How about 2250's ans 2350's?
RE: ISX CM871 New Head Or Rebuild Old Head - Waterloo - 04-20-2016
(04-20-2016 )trucklogger2 Wrote: Good advice from experience and thanks. How about 2250's ans 2350's?
New head, not a factory reman, but a NEW head. You do not want to make this an annual or semi annual event. There is enough drama out here, don't complicate it.
RE: ISX CM871 New Head Or Rebuild Old Head - trucklogger2 - 04-20-2016
(04-20-2016 )Waterloo Wrote:(04-20-2016 )trucklogger2 Wrote: Good advice from experience and thanks. How about 2250's ans 2350's?
New head, not a factory reman, but a NEW head. You do not want to make this an annual or semi annual event. There is enough drama out here, don't complicate it.
Thanks, but I was only asking,chill out
RE: ISX CM871 New Head Or Rebuild Old Head - Waterloo - 04-20-2016
(04-20-2016 )trucklogger2 Wrote:(04-20-2016 )Waterloo Wrote:(04-20-2016 )trucklogger2 Wrote: Good advice from experience and thanks. How about 2250's ans 2350's?
New head, not a factory reman, but a NEW head. You do not want to make this an annual or semi annual event. There is enough drama out here, don't complicate it.
Thanks, but I was only asking,chill out
Sorry, I did not mean to sound anal... LOL! I'm going through this right now, the in frame, and I am losing my mind... ;-)
I just got back from the International dealer doing the work, and had this discussion with the salesman, among other things.... Like the local shop doing mandate kills using questionable well proven disastrous methods. And now have a few beers in me. This entire thing sucks.
RE: ISX CM871 New Head Or Rebuild Old Head - trucklogger2 - 04-20-2016
(04-20-2016 )Waterloo Wrote:(04-20-2016 )trucklogger2 Wrote:(04-20-2016 )Waterloo Wrote:(04-20-2016 )trucklogger2 Wrote: Good advice from experience and thanks. How about 2250's ans 2350's?
New head, not a factory reman, but a NEW head. You do not want to make this an annual or semi annual event. There is enough drama out here, don't complicate it.
Thanks, but I was only asking,chill out
Sorry, I did not mean to sound anal... LOL! I'm going through this right now, the in frame, and I am losing my mind... ;-)
I just got back from the International dealer doing the work, and had this discussion with the salesman, among other things.... Like the local shop doing mandate kills using questionable well proven disastrous methods. And now have a few beers in me. This entire thing sucks.
Well, good luck buddy,I hope it works out and thanks again.