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cm870 bad flash - togglehiem - 10-06-2019
I tried to upload a new config into my cm870 and it failed. Now I can't connect to the ECM with either Calterm or Insite. I made a rom-boot cable and tried to reset it but still nothing. Is it bricked or is there something else I can try?
RE: cm870 bad flash - Rawze - 10-07-2019
This is not a tuning forum. However I will give u some hints, assuming what your doing is in a foreign country where what ur doing is legal ...
Some things to know about 870, generalized info only here. NO I am not going to provide instruction or step by step. Your on your own to figure that part out or u can PM forum member 'running rough', he works with them regularly.
first of all, caltterm (all versions) corrupts 870 files as soon as you hit the save button during a file edit. - Backed up files using CT also have a bunch of missing data that gets lost when u take a backup. If the file ur trying to use has been edited by CT, or was a backup using CT, heavy editing by hand of the flash file is needed to put back the missing data to prevent the common problems like it having permanent silent derates, running hot, or worse yet, suddenly not communicating (becoming a brick), or the dash of truck not working properly, etc. - this is very well known about them,a dn CT tears up the programming quite badly sometimes, and it is very unpredictable when one of these symptoms or more are going to happen.
Also, if your trying to do a de-mandate(dele.) then some parameters are not even located in the flash file itself at all, but only in ram memory (hence a silent derate + other problems after delete file is used)and have to be set while connected live and ecu is in edit mode. This is one of the bigger reason why 870 have so many people who make bad del. program for them. Some of the key settings are not even in the flash file at all.
-- If it will not communicate on the CAN1, then try CAN2 and a "weather-pack" connector + J1939-only. <- I have played around with a couple of them and bricked them thoroughly and royally on purpose, with failed uploads, corrupt files, bad data connections, popping the plug during flash, etc. just to see what the fuss was about / see what it would take to recover one if things like that happened ... but have never had to resort to a bench harness to get it back working. There are some tricks to getting it recovered although it seems that it is bricked.
If u can get to identify as device 0 (its default address) by whatever means necessary on CAN1 or (usually)CAN2, all a person needs to do is force it back into run mode and flash it again. Trouble is that the file needs to not be missing chunks of data when u do so or u be right back where u started.
more related info: https://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=8320&pid=72118#pid72118
RE: cm870 bad flash - togglehiem - 10-07-2019
I read your post on the 870 earlier which led me to suspect the 6 pin diagnostic connector might be the problem so I pulled the ecm off the truck rigged up a power lead and tried to rom boot it again. SUCCESS!
I've now recalibrated with the factory config and entered all the OEM information. I'll put it on tomorrow. Big thanks for the heads up about the probelms with various diagnostic connectors, it's not information I could've found elsewhere so it saved me a minimum of $500 if not more.
As for why I was tinkering with it to begin with I replaced the turbo due to a squealing noise which I believe was the VG section which had considerable wear in both the vanes and plate. I replaced the valve cam and rockers at the same time due to #5 intake lobe worn. During the test drive the turbo actuator (air operated) would randomly open producing severe black smoke a low power while bobtailing. Even parked at high idle it would black smoke so bad I was affraid someone would call the fire dept. I blocked off air to the actuator and tried it again and it did fine. So I tried a used actuator valve controller which made no difference. Before I did any of these repairs the enigine would hunt while idling which I dismissed as being cause by the cam. It idled much better after repairs but still would take spells where it was hunting. The recalibration was just something I thought might help.
I rebuilt the engine a couple of years ago and other than the cam/turbo replaced #4 injector and egr cooler about a year ago. Obviously I decarboned everything when I did the cooler. I would love to do a delete since we run the SE and the oil stays so dirty but at this point I'd just like to get the turbo issue fixed. I've checked the actuator travel and it's fine and since it's overfueling at the same time it's closing off the turbo I'm led to believe it has to be a electronic issue. Any ideas? And thanks again!
RE: cm870 bad flash - Nokiaicon - 10-07-2019
(10-07-2019 )togglehiem Wrote: I read your post on the 870 earlier which led me to suspect the 6 pin diagnostic connector might be the problem so I pulled the ecm off the truck rigged up a power lead and tried to rom boot it again. SUCCESS!
I've now recalibrated with the factory config and entered all the OEM information. I'll put it on tomorrow. Big thanks for the heads up about the probelms with various diagnostic connectors, it's not information I could've found elsewhere so it saved me a minimum of $500 if not more.
As for why I was tinkering with it to begin with I replaced the turbo due to a squealing noise which I believe was the VG section which had considerable wear in both the vanes and plate. I replaced the valve cam and rockers at the same time due to #5 intake lobe worn. During the test drive the turbo actuator (air operated) would randomly open producing severe black smoke a low power while bobtailing. Even parked at high idle it would black smoke so bad I was affraid someone would call the fire dept. I blocked off air to the actuator and tried it again and it did fine. So I tried a used actuator valve controller which made no difference. Before I did any of these repairs the enigine would hunt while idling which I dismissed as being cause by the cam. It idled much better after repairs but still would take spells where it was hunting. The recalibration was just something I thought might help.
I rebuilt the engine a couple of years ago and other than the cam/turbo replaced #4 injector and egr cooler about a year ago. Obviously I decarboned everything when I did the cooler. I would love to do a delete since we run the SE and the oil stays so dirty but at this point I'd just like to get the turbo issue fixed. I've checked the actuator travel and it's fine and since it's overfueling at the same time it's closing off the turbo I'm led to believe it has to be a electronic issue. Any ideas? And thanks again!
Keep us posted on this!
RE: cm870 bad flash - Unilevers - 10-07-2019
870's are the hardest engine out there due to the 870 only logic and the clunky bootloaders. 871's are much easier and more stable.
That being said i doubt you have a fueling issue more as a Charge flow issue due to the vgt moving around which can be caused by many things. Unplugging the EGR temp sensor and test driving it for a minute would reveal if it was egr related or not and then you can move from there.
RE: cm870 bad flash - togglehiem - 10-07-2019
(10-07-2019 )Unilevers Wrote: 870's are the hardest engine out there due to the 870 only logic and the clunky bootloaders. 871's are much easier and more stable.I'll give that a try. I test drove it today and it still has the same problem. At around 1500 it start black smoking severely and doesn't want to go above 1600 (bobtailing). I blocked off the actuator air supply and it run great but with a small bit a black smoke between 1500-2000 during acceleration. I used Insite to log both test drives if anyone is interested in looking at them.
That being said i doubt you have a fueling issue more as a Charge flow issue due to the vgt moving around which can be caused by many things. Unplugging the EGR temp sensor and test driving it for a minute would reveal if it was egr related or not and then you can move from there.
One wierd thing though. The dash on the truck (9400i) will show 20 faults while Insite shows none and the odometer can't be accessed, only the trip meter. Turning the key on and off resets the dash to show no faults.
I have an off the wall concern that I might as well share, I hope it doesn't make me sound crazy. The turbo was one I rebuilt with everything new except compressor and turbine (both were perfect), I timed the compressor to the shaft to maintain balance. I installed new vanes and plate for the VG section and made sure I located the yoke in the same location as before. I've compared the level position to two other VGT turbos and it seems to be where it should be when no air is applied. I've check actuator travel and it's right at 12mm. Now the concern, I bought the vane and plate set from a supplier selling them for half what everyone else does ($150) and now I'm wondering if they might have been for a different rotation turbo. If so that would explain why the actuator coming on is choking it down so badly. But honestly I've never seen a VGT turbo with the exhaust housing turned the other way. Could it be there is one I haven't seen and I installed vanes for it or even that I got hold of a set that was manufactered wrong and that's why it was so cheap? Hopefully some of you experts will know if this is even possible or if I'm just reaching.
Anyway I have the test drive logs if anyone is willing to look at them (if that's even something that would be helpful). I recorded using the EGR-Turbo presets. I'll be digging into more later this week when I get caught up on paperwork and booking loads for the guys. I 'll post anything I discover.
RE: cm870 bad flash - Rawze - 10-07-2019
what is the boost levels doing?
RE: cm870 bad flash - Unilevers - 10-07-2019
i 100% guarantee its your turbo and its not set right. Ask Wiseman and Bosko about this aswell as they disagreed with me until they too admitted defeat like i told them they would.
YOU CAN NOT TAKE A 870 TURBO APART AND GET IT 100% RIGHT. YOJITO CANT DO IT EITHER - CLOSE BUT NOT 100%!!!! THERE IS NO WAY TO CALIBRATE IT TO THE ENGINE AND THERE IS NO FEEDBACK FOR THE ECM TO KNOW ITS WRONG!!!!
It is set on a special jig at holset and everything is timed and set and the actuator travel is measured for force and measured movement and the whole 9 yards. Do i think rawze could do it with a few months and me saying he couldn't - yes, but he would have to build the jig from scratch and he has a heavy background in motion control. Anyone else cannot just put it together.
Ive seen atleast 5(6 including me) people take apart their 870's exactly like you did, and fail exactly like you are. I spent 3 days fucking with it before i gave up. You cannot get it right without that jig. whats happening is its not where the ECM wants it to be and its seeing increased turbo speed and charge flow too rapid for its reference tables. It then dumps the turbo and starts back up from the bottom. It will be erratic and inconsistent and the truck will barely work. It is your turbo you took apart - the moment you undid the internals that turbo was no longer good.
The fact that when you block the turbo off and it runs decent should tell you something. Please people stop trying to fix these 870 turbo's. You are going down a dark rabbit hole and you dont realize how deep it is.
RE: cm870 bad flash - Rawze - 10-07-2019
actualy YTS almost always recommends ppl get a certified reman from cummins for the 870 instead of having their old one rebuilt. They are only usually a couple hundred $$ diff in price than he can reman one himself by the time you change all the bushings and guts + time to re-balance a new turbine, sand blast and re-machine all the housings and de-anodize the coolant/oil passageways properly, etc.
There is a lot more to rebuilding a turbocharger the right way than people think.