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Cumins isx 15 NEED HELP AND ADVISE - Kenworth t660 - 03-26-2020
Got a 2014 kenworth t660 studio sleeper 13 pd isx cm2350. I have spent alot on this truck and need advise moving forward. Im a truck owner and have the same driver for 3 years good driver . Bought the truck with 400k miles and after a year engine blew Previous owners ran it alot . I was inexperienced at the time. . I bought a used cm2350 engine with 200 k on it for 15K . I did a dpf delete and it ran good for while nothing but regular ware tare repairs and oil changes . I take care of this truck and have spent alot of money fixing stuff that needed to be fixed because its my only baby. Now here is what im dealing with . My truck recently was losing a little power on hills and had that 559 fuel rail pressure code and we took it in to a shop .
That code would go on and off . They said might be injectors and changed my injector cups and this idiot without my permission updated the computer ( Activated my dpf ) and told me after that he had to do it in order to change the injector cups then he said he will re do the dof delete for only $500. So i did it because i wanted to be over with . Then i had same problem on hills so i took it to another more reliable shop. They pressure tested injectors and they were bad . I l got reman injectors for $450 a piece and had it changed . Engine light went off truck ran good for a month then started experiencing just a bit lag on hills only on hills and sometimes yellow service light would come on and go off after hilll climb. I have another reliable friend works at petro and always checks out my truck when i pass by okc just to make sure everything good on truck. He told me when i get back to cali get the fuel pump checked out and the dpf delete shop did. Need advise on what to do or look for when i take truck in to shop .
Got another thing i need advise with. Ive seen rawze egr tune up videos that help the engine life and performance. My engine now has about 450k miles and full synthetic oil change on the regular. Heres my question. Since i had a dpf delete what sensors and components can i replace on my cm2350 engine for long engine life? Planning on doing full In frame rebuild kit around 600-650 miles. Just need to save some money before i do that . Please help me out with some advise and what i should do and what my problems can be . My truck is about to get paid off and in 5 months and im actually thinking about selling it once paid off and buying a new truck with 4 year warranty because i am tired of keep paying for stuff and nothing getting fixed.
GOD BLESS!!
RE: Cumins isx 15 NEED HELP AND ADVISE - tree98 - 03-26-2020
Oh boy, you have the 559 code and your still driving it ?? The symptoms you describe are exactly what happened in this unfortunate case
https://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=1805
This is not good at all. It's quite possible your fuel pump is failing and sending metal particles through your entire engine! The internals of that pump must be replaced around 400K and you have 450K !! Take your fuel filter off right now, cut it open and look for metal particles( might not even have to cut it open) I'm not an expert on this exact situation but I think if you catch it within about 300 miles the engine can still possibly be saved if you can tow it to Mr. Haggs down in Georgia. And YES this situation is THAT SERIOUS, DON'T TAKE THIS LIGHTLY!!!
Also you have a bad program in your truck but that's not your biggest problem right now.
RE: Cumins isx 15 NEED HELP AND ADVISE - Rawze - 03-26-2020
(03-26-2020 )Kenworth t660 Wrote: Got a 2014 kenworth t660 studio sleeper 13 pd isx cm2350. I have spent alot on this truck and need advise moving forward. Im a truck owner and have the same driver for 3 years good driver . Bought the truck with 400k miles and after a year engine blew Previous owners ran it alot . I was inexperienced at the time.
- Your post implies that there may be a steep a learning curve ahead of you towards sorting out your issues. There are some red flags based on what was said towards owning and maintaining one of these newer trucks/engines as a whole, beyond your qustions. I will take the time to focus on some of this.
Quote: . I bought a used cm2350 engine with 200 k on it for 15K . I did a dpf delete and ...
DPF deletes are very well known to be problematic and severely shorten the life of an engine when not done exactly right. This a serious issue all in itself. The only way to know if it was done correctly is going to be some serious inspections, and it does not matter who did the work, no matter how good their intentions, or how good you think the truck may run, 99% of the delete programs out there that people use are complete sh%it and cause engine harm over time.
As well, most shops doing this type of work will also not deal with the hardware properly. they are either severaly lazy, or mis-informed about what proper steps are ensured mechanically.
-- You should put the highest priority on resolving both ensuring the hardware changes were done correctly 100%, and that the programming was done 100% correctly. You NEED TO DO THIS YOURSELF!,.. and take no shop or person's word for it whatsoever, unless all of the work was done by the very few people known for doing things the right ways. Almost all of those very few people/places are also a part of this hard-core ISX forum. I will not allow the others to be on here or advertise what they do, because I got sick of dealing with the aftermath of any sorts of improper methods a long time ago.
Every other shop and their friends can delete (jail-break) a truck these days enough to get it not to show codes in the dash, but to get it to not sacrifice the engine's longevity in the process is entirely another thing.
-- As far as the programming goes, and having it properly inspected, all a person has to do is get themselves a cheap laptop, an inline-6 adapter off ebay/china for a few hundred bucks, and a pir#ated/cra#cked version of the Insite and Calterm software, its all over the internet. Then copy the file out and e-mail it to myself for a review. -- I do this for anyone for free, so that at least they have proper piece of mind.
A computer and an adapter to read and troubleshoot your truck properly will save a person tens of thousands of dollars a year in avoided trips to repair shops. - it is flat out just bad business practice not to own such tools with todays modern equipment.
* Next are the hardware modifications. It is imperative that ALL the exhaust emissions systems components (the DOC, DPF, AND SCR CANISTER, ALL 3) are 100% hollowed out to the bare metal. It is very common for this not to be done correctly, especially the SCR canister, as it is welded shut by the manufacturer and most delete shops will not do them. They instead are quick to make poor excuses and a bunch of false claims that they do not need to be done. The decomp tube in the exhaust is also a sticky-point, where it can clog up due to a disabled, but possibly seeping DEF injector. Exhaust restrictions are common after a delete if things were not done 100% properly. Excess reflected heat and pressures in the exhaust system will lead to power loss and eventually cause engine and/or turbocharger failures.
* Get the right tools,.. right away .... and get a copy of your program out of that thing and sent to me for a review. No one on here can much help you if you do not do this, we all know the dead end road of engine destruction it leads to otherwise, and you will only be fooling yourself by not doing so. Does not matter how much you feel the engine runs or how good you feel about who did the work. it is pointless to even mention it.
Quote: My truck recently was losing a little power on hills and had that 559 fuel rail pressure code and we took it in to a shop. That code would go on and off .
-- There are some really common and well known things about the ISX engines related to the infamous 559 fuel pressure loss code, and/or its error code friends. First and foremost, the CM2350's (and CM2250's) are notorious for getting the dreaded 559 fuel pressure code that comes and goes + a bit of power loss when the fuel pump starts to fail. This is a common scenario when the fuel pump has more than 400k miles (or equivalent hours) on it, and no one bothered to replace its guts yet. Fuel pump failures are a very serious problem with the ISX and they destroy the entire engine when they start to fail.
Since this is a well known, common issue, You should have been in full panic mode as soon as this started happening. Sad part, is you likely have zero knowledge of this (why you did not panic right away), and it seems that every one of those so-called 'trust-worthy' idiots you have been relying on are just as completely clueless about it too. - This being the case, the very first thing that should have been done is the head of that fuel pump pulled off there and all the guts for it replaced + an inspection of the bottom end of the pump done -- by every single place you seem to put your faith in,.. every one of those places are complete morons who you should not trust with an ISX engine at all. It is that well known a problem, and it is that serious. . <- That should have been pryority #1, and hence why the person above said you should also cut open a fuel filter and look for metal shavings after it is cut open.
Just because you get a 559 code and the symptoms, does not always mean a fuel pump failure though. The fuel system leaking badly internally can also cause it, but nonetheless, your fuel pump should have been done first, before anyone went forward.
Hopefully, it was, and is not your fuel pump ... but If I owned it, I would be shaking in my boots and praying like hell that a s$it-ton of internal enigne damage has not occurred since it was driven against this very real possibility.
When the fuel pump goes out and no one does anything right away to stop it, the damage that is caused by this failure is extensive and the engine after a while (sometimes in less than 500 miles, sometimes takes a few weeks), when running it against a failing fuel pump completely destroys itself far beyond any inframe/re-build can save. The whole engine and all of its components are destroyed. Nothing whatsoever in it is salvageable, block, crank, gear train, and everything else is toast. - A complete long-block is the only solution if it is not caught right away!.
It is serious enough that a person should never ever make the assumption that it is not the fuel pump when there are fuel pressure issues of any kind.
Quote:...
They said might be injectors and changed my injector cups ...
There is no "MIGHT BE" this or that bulls$it on the ISX engine when you have fuel pressure related codes. - There are plenty of proper procedures to test the engine, its common rail/fuel system, and its injectors. --- Guessing is absolutely the worst thing someone can do. it clearly shows a pattern of incompetence / proper training on how the engine works or its proper procedures towards repairing it without just guessing and wasting thousands of dollars blindly.
again, a very serious lack of competence on the repair shops you have put your faith into blindly. It is an expensive mistake not to know how to work on your own equipment to some medium degree, and a complete waste of money to rely on others all the time, as most of this industry is severely under-trained any more. this especially includes the OEM-certified places, they are absolutely the worst of them all, and a complete waste of money. - Again this strongly point towards sheer incompetence and lack of fundamental things towards truck ownership, and the repair shops you have been putting way too much faith and confidence in.
You should have bee pro-active, either doing the work yourself, or with someone else and ...
* Replaced ALL THE GUTS OF THE FUEL PUMP RIGHT AWAY + an inspection to ensure that is not part of the failure. This should have been done even if the whole thing looked fin on its insides, just as a preventative measure, considering it had 400k+ miles run time on the pump.
* Determining if it would Would it pass an injector/rail leak test?. This would have completely saved all the guessing and wasted thousands of dollars on injecvtors and other engine parts, and all the guess work of bulls#it throwing parts at it.
-- It whole heatedly sounds like you completely wasted money, trusting others blindly, etc. and that is no way to do things as a small trucking business.
You had better goddamn believe if I owned it, I would make them show me the pressure loss rate of each of the injectors they claimed were bad, while watching them do the proper leak-rate tests on them individually before I would allow them to even touch one of them. Lack of education on your part costs you big dollars, and even bigger dollars if you are running it off to everyone else to have things done. - That is no design for a proper business model in trucking these days, it simply does not work.
-- Again,.. all of this falls right back to a serious lack of education not only on your part, not only on your drivers part as well, .. but collectively on the part of those ignorant fools you have been taking it to and somewhat have trusted. Our trucking industry is slap full of severely under-trained idiots who are more than willing to take you for all you are worth, tell you what you want to hear, and most of them reside at the stealers$its and certified OEM repair shops.
- lastly, you mentioned .. "injector cups" ...
-- were you loosing fuel pressure? or were you getting coolant into the cylinders? -- Is this a typo? or is this more blind guessing by someone?. Injector cups cause coolant problems, not not power loss and fuel pressure problems. Something in that part of your statement does not add up.
Quote:... and this idiot without my permission updated the computer ( Activated my dpf ) and told me after that he had to do it in order to change the injector cups ...
then he said he will re do the dPf delete for only $500. So i did it ...
That is a massive red flag right there. - Assuming for a moment that the morons replaced injectors,.. it is in fact required for the injector trim codes to be updated in the ecm (computer). But all a person has to do is connect with the Insite software, type the new code(s) in, and hit the save button. - So...
This means that you were totally ripped of by someone taking complete advantage of you ... OR... They were completely stupid and royally f$ucked up! ... then tried to cover it up by lying to you.
In any event, again,... you have yet another 'delete' program ,.. and yet another amplified chance of having a bad delete program in your ecm. - A ticking time bomb waiting to destroy something without notice, and a perfect storm for repeating future engine failures.
Quote:...
Then i had same problem on hills so i took it to another more reliable shop. They pressure tested injectors and they were bad . I l got reman injectors for $450 a piece and had it changed .
Are you starting to see the repeating pattern of shortcomings yet?-- Complete lacking an education towards owning one of these engines/trucks and relying on "that guy who claims he is good" all the time, and the circle of death and wasted moneys continues.
Also, WHY would you have to pay yet again for injectors?-- The Injectors you had some blind idiot install should have had a warranty on them. - I don't get that one.
Quote:... ran good for a month then started experiencing just a bit lag on hills only on hills and sometimes yellow service light would come on and go off after hill climb. I have another reliable friend works at petro and always checks out my truck when i pass by okc just to make sure everything good on truck. He told me when i get back to cali get the fuel pump checked out and the dpf delete shop did.
What was the CEL codes in the ecm?. you did not mention them.
Your friend may have given you a bit better advice, .. maybe not,.. but IF HE HAD ANY BRAINS AT ALL,.. HE WOULD HAVE BEEN SCREAMING AT YOU TO PULL THAT FUEL PUMP APART AND STOP DRIVING IT RIGHT AWAY TO PREVENT POSSIBLE FURTHER SEVERE ENGINE DAMAGE IF THAT FUEL PUMP HAD NOT BEEN CHECKED OUT PROPERLY !!! -- IT TAKES YET ANOTHER FOOL TO EVEN SUGGEST YOU DRIVE IT ONE GODDAMN MILE AFTER KNOWING YOU HAVE HAD 559 AND OTHER FUEL PRESSURE RELATED ENGINE CODES AND NO ONE BOTHERING TO INSPECT THE FUEL PUMP GUTS THOROUGHLY YET!!!!!!
- Again, hopefully, that is not your issue,.. even so, a proper injector leak-down test and being able to actually look at your problems properly YOURSELF! and solve them properly are severely missing here.
Quote:... another thing i need advise with. ...
You do not need advice,.. you need to start educating yourself quickly + investing in the right tools and equipment towards owning one of these newer ISX engines and stop getting ripped off, taken advantage of. You need to stop trusting your "good mechanic", stop listening to idiots with wrenches, stop taking risks with your equipment, and start learning how to work on it.
Educating yourself on how to spot the trail of bulls#it mechanics you have been taking it to like a blind fool, and start grabbing wrenches, getting the proper tools, etc... and taking all of your minor to medium repairs it into your own hands like a proper truck owner should! - That or keep suffering the fate of getting ripped off and taken advantage of by idiots, because that is all you have done so far. There should be no more wondering why you have nothing but problems at this point. All you have to do is look in the mirror. -- This trucking industry does not have wiggle room for people who do not work on and maintain their own equipment to some medium extent.
Your future holds a bad turbo or 2, a failed head gasket, by bad delete programming, .. or possibly finding out the entire engine is completely f$cked internally and not worth saving if that fuel pump is actually going bad. That is what your future clearly points towards based solely on what you have described so far.
Quote:... full synthetic oil change ...
Why would you waste money on full syn oil?-- or even worse? - I hope like hell you are not doing oil changes with long intervals like 30k+ miles at a time or some other ridiculous things.. again wasting money and more red flags/heavy signs of poor education towards owning a truck.
Quote:...
im actually thinking about selling it once paid off and buying a new truck with 4 year warranty because i am tired of ...
Sounds to me like you have a serious lack of experience on how to properly own and maintain a modern truck. Replacing it is going to accomplish nothing but repeating your mistakes, having the same problems of having nothing but issues, and you are destined to repeat the cycle of this complete lunacy. -- That is where your headed real fast. Replacing the equipment will ensure you live your nightmare over and over without any idea why you can't make it work for you. - That is your future, so if you ...
Quote:... NEED HELP AND ADVISE ...
Then you need to stop whatever the hell you are doing, start taking that piece of equipment you already have and start taking your problems into your own hands, educate yourself on how to properly own and maintain a truck, get involved with its issues directly, get your hands dirty, etc ... or be destined to repeat your mistakes over and over like a blinded fool.
*** FIRST AND FOREMOST!!!!!!!!! ---- ->>>> GE THAT GODDAMN FUEL PUMP PULLED APART AND THE GUTS REPLACED! -- EVEN IF IT LOOKS FINE, JUST FOR PIECE OF MIND! -- PRIORITY NUMBER ONE!
*** GET THE PROGRAM PULLED/COPIED OUT OF THAT ECM --- YOURSELF, PREFERABLY, SO THAT YOU DO NOT HAVE TO RELY ON ANYONE!!!!-- AND HAVE IT INSPECTED (e-mail it to me) SO THAT YOU KNOW WHAT THE HELL YOU GOT!
-- STOP MAKING BLIND ASSUMPTIONS AND GUESSING AT EVERYTHING! -- IT HAS TO STOP AND YOU NEED TO KILL THAT ASSUMPTION ATTITUDE, DRIVE IT AWAY FROM YOUR BUSINESS MODEL LIKE A PLAGUE!
*** PULL THOSE DAMN EXHAUST CANS ALL APART, ENSURE THEY ARE ALL 100% HOLLOW ALL THE WAY THROUGH THEM, INCLUDING THAT SCR CANISTER THAT EVERYONE IS QUICK TO NOT DO PROPERLY + INSPECT THE REST OF THE ENGINE AND TRUCK TO ENSURE WHATEVER 'DE-MANDATE' WORK WAS DONE, IS DONE CORRECTLY!
*** START LEARNING HOW TO WORK ON THAT THING AND KEEP IT RELIABLE --- YOURSELF --- WITH THE PROPER TOOL AND WRENCHES AND SOFTWARE -- AND STOP RELYING ON UNDER-TRAINED MECHANICS AND COMPLETE IDIOTS ALL THE TIME!
LEARN HOW TO MAKE WHAT YOU ALREADY HAVE WORK FOR YOU AND STOP RUNNING AROUND BLIND AND RELYING ON EVERYONE ELSE TO SOLVE YOUR ISSUES! --- IF YOU DO NOT, THEN YOU WILL NEVER HAVE A SUCCESSFUL TRUCKING BUSINESS!!!-- TRUCKING DOES NOT WORK LIKE THAT! -- OWNING AND OPERATING TRUCKS IS NOT A NO-HANDS-ON INVESTMENT. THAT DOES NOT WORK!
RE: Cumins isx 15 NEED HELP AND ADVISE - Kenworth t660 - 03-27-2020
First of all i want to thank you guys on such quick response.
When i had CEL for fuel pressure it was the middle service engine light . We had fuel rail 559 code when my injectors were bad . They sent them out and pressure tested it and they were shot . When we changed them there was no engine light after and truck ran good . Recently we only get the other yellow engine light thats top of speedometer but it comes and and goes off quick but no rail pressure code . Drivers saying when on hills instead of doing 70-75 its does around 55-60 and that when light comes on and goes off when on straight road .
For the dpf delete programing my drivers saying he knows and feels that the shop that changed the injector cups and reprogrammed they didnt program right because he feels like dpf is active when its not and runs bit rougher and higher rpm . I am taking truck in monday to a mechanic that origianally put in the motor and did the dpf delete which they did a great job never had issues . Dont know why i didnt keep going to this guy . He always explains everything about the issue and how to fix . Reason i didnt go back was they did job right but his workers never put screws or bolts back right . Simple mistakes . Anyways heres what im gonna do as advised from rawzee.
By the way ima be there for them to show me everything .
1. Ima have them check fuel pump for any issues and even if pump is not the issue ima change all the gut for the pump anyway .
2. Since this mechanic had someone do my delete and did it right first time ima have him pull the computer like rawzee said and check computer to see what programming was done and have it fixed .
I actually do maintain this truck . I get a synthetic oil change every 12-14k miles with all the filters . Also driver said he didnt see metal particals on fuel filter . I take of this truck whatever needs to be fixed i do it but i dont have good mechanics that trully try to help and pinpoint the problem and from now on ima be there every time for them to show me.
Mr Rawzee would you know any good mechanics in the westcoast ? I am from fontana california . I would love for you to check the ecm properly and let me know what needs to be done but i dont know how that possible because we are from southern california. . Also how do i get the deete program and what tool from ebay do i need ? Is the delete program really free to download on the web ? Please fill me in more on this because i would love to have the delete file for myself just incase but i dont know alot when it comes to this truck computers .
Last thing i need advice . Once my truck is fixed 100% and correctly programmed with the delete ...... i want to know what tune ups can i do and sensors can replace for long engine life since i cant do egr tune up .
Once again i really appreciate the quick respond Mr Rawze and GOD BLESS!!!
RE: Cumins isx 15 NEED HELP AND ADVISE - tree98 - 03-27-2020
You need this
https://www.ebay.com/itm/153499143638
And a laptop to be able to diagnose your own truck.
DON'T LET THAT GUY PROGRAM YOUR TRUCK AGAIN!!! I don't care if you think he did it right last time. I would bet big money that he did not. You need to send a PM to mommaburt and Unilevers on this forum. They can tune it remotely with a safe tune that won't destroy your engine without you even knowing it's happening. If I we're you I wouldn't trust any program you find online for your 2350. If it were an 871 that's a different story.
Also you need to start learning how to work on your own truck, stick around here and ask questions and start buying tools so you won't be at the mercy of the shops that do a terrible job and charge a boat load of money for it. The shop you said did a great job also didn't put bolts back in??? That's not a great job in my book. This forum is about learning how to take care of your own equipment and using safe reliable programming. There isn't any place like it on the web so consider yourself lucky you found it.
RE: Cumins isx 15 NEED HELP AND ADVISE - Rawze - 03-27-2020
Sorry, but I cannot help those people who do not listen, but instead continue to make poor decisions based on poor assumptions.
- My trying to genuinely help someone seems to have fallen on mostly deaf ears once again.
RE: Cumins isx 15 NEED HELP AND ADVISE - Kenworth t660 - 03-27-2020
I am really trying to take every advise from you guys sir. What did i say wrong ?
RE: Cumins isx 15 NEED HELP AND ADVISE - Kenworth t660 - 03-27-2020
Please Mr Rawze tell me what i said wrong and what needs to be done . I am desperate to fix my truck sir
RE: Cumins isx 15 NEED HELP AND ADVISE - Waterloo - 03-27-2020
"I am taking truck in monday to a mechanic that origianally put in the motor and did the dpf delete which they did a great job never had issues."
You are not listening, if this guy did such a great job why are you having issues? You are having issues, and you keep denying it.
First you need to pull the head on that fuel pump, that should have been done yesterday and rebuild it, and pray it has not already started to disintegrate.
Then, you need to get under the truck and drop the DOC, DPF, and SCR cans, odds are none are hollowed out or just have a few holes drilled through them. Hollow them out!
Then you need the inline reader Tree linked you too and get a hold of Unilever or Mommaburt here on the forum and fix that tune.