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cm2250 -cm871 - BigfootDiesel - 09-28-2020
im the new guy here and thank you for accepting me to the group
i have 2 isx im dealing with and would love to get help or if someone can point me to the
right person id much appreciate it.
firs one is a cm2250 it in a volvo and it has been mandated , looking for someone
who can do a remote hook up and go thru it and see but the biggest thing is id like more power
out of it it has cpl3719 i was told 450 was max it can do what are my options on this and is it possible to take it up and how much.
second one i have is a isx cm 871 this truck is all factory everything is working on it
i do believe the engine was replaced whats in the ecu does not match whats on the door and the valve cover is not helpfull as it is blacked out cant read anything from it.
but truck is running fine no issues cpl 2732 on this what id like to know is whats capable of being done to this to improve power and possible mpg.
thank you
RE: cm2250 -cm871 - Rawze - 09-28-2020
seems too many people want more power all the time... until they end up with a $25,000 bill for that inframe much sooner than they would like.
What RPM range are you running the engine in mostly? what rear ratios? -- it can't make full power if your lugging it everywhere (anything much below 1500 rpm, it can't make full power) because of poor driving habits or terrible rear ratios.
The biggest difference you can make in how a truck pulls is by re-gearing the rear ends to better suit the operation. It is also the cheapest option long term instead of trying to modify the most expensive component in the drive-train (the engine).
-- as far as the de-mandate goes ... if you give a damn at all about your equipment, stop relying on everyone else to butcher your ecm into oblivion and take control of it yourself. If ya got insite, you can get CT going (its on the web in many places 4 free if u just look 4 it) .. and with CT, you can pull the file yourself and e-mail it to me ... I will review it for ya, tell you exactly what is in there and its quality.
RE: cm2250 -cm871 - Waterloo - 09-29-2020
Please post the make, model and year of the trucks, along with mileage, axle gearing and transmission, along with application.
I sent you an email that should help you in regards to Insite and the Inline reader, along with some other stuff.
If you do not have a Cummins Quickserve account, you need to go to Cummins Quickserve and sign both of your motors up with the Engine Identification Number. Your 871, call the dealer and get the EIN from the original motor. The Quickserve account is free, and gives you access to everything you need to work on these motors, from parts to procedures and diagnostics. Here is the link: https://quickserve.cummins.com/info/index.html
Here is the Inline reader kit we pretty much all use here... You will need this, just buy it. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Cummins-INLINE-6-Data-Link-Adapter-truck-heavy-duty-diagnostic-obdii-scanner/123742287676?hash=item1ccf9d773c:g:zAIAAOSwIJlZ9U~7
Rawze is correct regarding power, the gear ratio in these newer trucks is rarely suited to the application the truck is intended to perform. And of course the first place everyone goes is the motor. That should be the last place other than say overheads and EGR tuneups.
And you do know about the fuel pumps on the 2250 and newer motors? That would be my first priority on that particular motor.
I do not know where you are located, but Mr Hag is in GA, just south of Atlanta in Griffin, Haggai Automotive and Diesel, look him up. He is the one trusted shop that most of us use if the need arrises.
My advice, purchase the reader I linked to above, and get copies of the ECM files to Rawze so that he can inspect.
If that 2250 has had someone in the ECM playing with the mandate, odds are it is a bad file and doing damage to the motor. This is nothing to play with, unless you are flush with cash.
First thing I would do while waiting for the reader is to complete an EGR tuneup on both motors, replacing the needed sensors, mainly the Intake Manifold Pressure Sensor and the Exhaust Back Pressure Sensor, both motors have these two sensors, buy two of each. On the 871 there is a video linked to above in the video section regarding your 871, watch that series in regards to the EGR Tuneup, as the 871 has one sensor the 2250 does not, the Differential Pressure sensor, I would inspect and replace if it is original. There are other sensors too, and of course the dosers, but wait on those until you get Insite up and running, no use throwing money away at this point.
I would also do an overhead on both motors, you really should be under the valve cover inspecting the cams and lobes, along with the valve adjustment. It is not difficult to do, there is a video on that too in the Rawze video library at the top of the page. I would not trust a shop to do this overhead properly, unless you can stand there and help or at least observe. If you do not have the tools to do an overhead, you really should invest a few bucks and do just that.
The ISX, once you get to know it, is a very simple motor with a few quirks. But until it is understood what is going on, it can be a bit overwhelming, as all of these new EPA motors are.
If you have not figured it out yet, running off to a shop will drain your bank account quickly, so take the time to learn everything you can about these motors and purchase the needed tools to care for and maintain them. The days of GTO are long gone, and relying on shops to keep your trucks healthy is foolishness. Many of us here were on the verge of bankruptcy before finding Rawze and this site. I was. Time to get your hands dirty. Oh, and welcome aboard!
RE: cm2250 -cm871 - BigfootDiesel - 09-29-2020
(09-29-2020 )Waterloo Wrote: Please post the make, model and year of the trucks, along with mileage, axle gearing and transmission, along with application.
I sent you an email that should help you in regards to Insite and the Inline reader, along with some other stuff.
If you do not have a Cummins Quickserve account, you need to go to Cummins Quickserve and sign both of your motors up with the Engine Identification Number. Your 871, call the dealer and get the EIN from the original motor. The Quickserve account is free, and gives you access to everything you need to work on these motors, from parts to procedures and diagnostics. Here is the link: https://quickserve.cummins.com/info/index.html
Here is the Inline reader kit we pretty much all use here... You will need this, just buy it. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Cummins-INLINE-6-Data-Link-Adapter-truck-heavy-duty-diagnostic-obdii-scanner/123742287676?hash=item1ccf9d773c:g:zAIAAOSwIJlZ9U~7
Rawze is correct regarding power, the gear ratio in these newer trucks is rarely suited to the application the truck is intended to perform. And of course the first place everyone goes is the motor. That should be the last place other than say overheads and EGR tuneups.
And you do know about the fuel pumps on the 2250 and newer motors? That would be my first priority on that particular motor.
I do not know where you are located, but Mr Hag is in GA, just south of Atlanta in Griffin, Haggai Automotive and Diesel, look him up. He is the one trusted shop that most of us use if the need arrises.
My advice, purchase the reader I linked to above, and get copies of the ECM files to Rawze so that he can inspect.
If that 2250 has had someone in the ECM playing with the mandate, odds are it is a bad file and doing damage to the motor. This is nothing to play with, unless you are flush with cash.
First thing I would do while waiting for the reader is to complete an EGR tuneup on both motors, replacing the needed sensors, mainly the Intake Manifold Pressure Sensor and the Exhaust Back Pressure Sensor, both motors have these two sensors, buy two of each. On the 871 there is a video linked to above in the video section regarding your 871, watch that series in regards to the EGR Tuneup, as the 871 has one sensor the 2250 does not, the Differential Pressure sensor, I would inspect and replace if it is original. There are other sensors too, and of course the dosers, but wait on those until you get Insite up and running, no use throwing money away at this point.
I would also do an overhead on both motors, you really should be under the valve cover inspecting the cams and lobes, along with the valve adjustment. It is not difficult to do, there is a video on that too in the Rawze video library at the top of the page. I would not trust a shop to do this overhead properly, unless you can stand there and help or at least observe. If you do not have the tools to do an overhead, you really should invest a few bucks and do just that.
The ISX, once you get to know it, is a very simple motor with a few quirks. But until it is understood what is going on, it can be a bit overwhelming, as all of these new EPA motors are.
If you have not figured it out yet, running off to a shop will drain your bank account quickly, so take the time to learn everything you can about these motors and purchase the needed tools to care for and maintain them. The days of GTO are long gone, and relying on shops to keep your trucks healthy is foolishness. Many of us here were on the verge of bankruptcy before finding Rawze and this site. I was. Time to get your hands dirty. Oh, and welcome aboard!
thank you for all the information i do have insite and i use a nexiq2 but not original, the cm2250 i bought because i got a good deal and been wanting to start working more on cummins, i like them just did not own any in a while.
the cm2250 its a 2012 volvo with a fro16210c transmission 3:42 rears and low pro 22.5 on it runs 70mph and 1500rpm.
i have allready done pm service change crank case filter ,boost sensor ,check for boost leaks , im aware of there fuel pump issues and it has allready been replaced and it idles very smooth ,is there a way to tell when the pump is going out or just replace every so often kinda thing?
the power part im actually looking because id like to have a truck with some more grunt and be able to pull heavier loads easier , allways had truck in the mid 400, truck runs and has no issues.
as far as the ecu i know who did it and they do decent work,but i have been fallowing rawze for a while and i believe he knows cummins bertter then all i have seen and i have learned alot thru his videos ,always said i get a cummins i would like rawze to do tune or advise me on it and thats why im here and looking forward to learning more from him and you and who else is good at cummins.
the cm 871 i will track all the info down from dealer and will start on that one next week or so
RE: cm2250 -cm871 - Rawze - 09-29-2020
(09-29-2020 )BigfootDiesel Wrote: ...
as far as the ecu i know who did it and they do decent work,but i have been
...
That is what they all say... However your actual odds are more than 90%+ against this.
You got an adapter, just pull the file out of it using CT software and e-mail it to me .. I will review it, check it and tell you exactly whats in there.
RE: cm2250 -cm871 - Rawze - 09-29-2020
(09-29-2020 )BigfootDiesel Wrote: ...
the cm2250 its a 2012 volvo with a fro16210c transmission 3:42 rears and low pro 22.5 on it runs 70mph and 1500rpm.
re-gear it and put a set of 3.79's in it if you want it to pull heavier loads and be able to get out of its own way ... adding power, even if ti were set to 600 HP, it will still feel doggish with those 3.42's in it.
Also running that truck at 1500 and below under any kind of loads shortens engine life. those rears are doing it no good at all. Remove any gear-down rev-limiter in it and lean to drive it a gear down and above 1500+ to 1900 rpm range, especially when pulling and it will last far longer and fair much better.
RE: cm2250 -cm871 - Waterloo - 09-30-2020
Like Rawze said, re-gear, look at my signature. I keep my gearing due to one fact, I have an 18 speed transmission. I can work around that issue, other than the sluggishness, but I try to haul light freight. I run in either high 7th or low 8th gear, that gets me the best fuel mileage I can squeeze out of this beast, rpm's run right at 1600 at 64 mph in that low 8. I drop below 1500 rpm and I am down shifting. And I tend to avoid using the cruise control, unless I am running in the flats or empty. You are just beating that motor to death.
RE: cm2250 -cm871 - Rawze - 09-30-2020
I think people don't realize that a mid-tier 475HP/1750trq engine turning 1750 rpm's will out-pull a signature-600 600HP/2050trq turning 1250rpm, simply because of better gearing.
RE: cm2250 -cm871 - JimT - 10-06-2020
(09-29-2020 )BigfootDiesel Wrote: im aware of there fuel pump issues and it has allready been replaced and it idles very smooth ,is there a way to tell when the pump is going out or just replace every so often kinda thing?
the power part im actually looking because id like to have a truck with some more grunt and be able to pull heavier loads easier , allways had truck in the mid 400, truck runs and has no issues.
For the Fuel Pump, there is no magic crystal ball to let you know before it fails. BUT it's a very simple job to unbolt and remove the head from the pump to inspect it every year or maybe 100,000 miles. Work it in with other period maintenance, like an overhead adjustment, battery cable cleaning, EGR tuneup (if functional), etc... Cummins says to replace the gasket (on the fuel pump head) if removed, but if it's still in good shape it should be fine to reuse at least once. Figure about 400,000 miles between preventative rebuilding of the pump head.
I personally rebuilt my fuel pump head in July of 2019. By the time I did my inframe in August of this year (2020) the rollers were already worn and the cam had noticeable damage. Ended up replacing the entire pump this time. I'm guessing I missed some small damage to the cam the first time I was in there and after a year it just got worse. The key point however is to inspect it periodically and you will catch any damage before it becomes catastrophic.
As far as increasing the HP on the 2250 it will depend on the internal parts. If memory serves me correctly there's 4 different cylinder liners with 2 different HP ratings. Also the Oil Cooler comes in 2 different versions, a steel one rated up to 500 HP and an aluminum one rated at or above 500 HP. That's basically the division of parts in the cm2250. They are built with either sub 500 HP or above 500 HP parts and the rest is programming. If the CPL doesn't support higher HP then don't push your luck. I got lucky, my 450HP ST cm2250 was built with all the higher HP parts.
I'm right there with Rawze and Waterloo. I keep her between 1550 and about 1800 when in the upper gears. With my 3.36 rears and a 13 speed I end up getting my best mpg running about 62 mph at 1550-1560 rpm in 12th with 5-10psi of boost. If I can't keep it above 1550-1600 with 21psi of boost (or less) then I downshift until I find a gear that can do it. If the grade is steep enough and I find myself getting down around 35-45mph then I might increase the boost a bit, but usually only for shorter climbs. My rule of thumb is, higher boost = higher rpms. Occassionally, I'll run up in 13th gear at 1500 rpms doing about 72 mph with a mid-roof sleeper and an empty flatbed, but only on relatively flat ground. One day I'll have the extra money to re-gear this truck and make 13th more usable, then I should be able to get even better fuel mileage without beating up the engine.