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+--- Thread: cm2350 ecm on cm2250 engine (/showthread.php?tid=7974)
cm2350 ecm on cm2250 engine - RGM - 01-19-2022
[attachment=8266][attachment=8267]I’m looking at a truck that had a CM2350 500 hp and they did a engine swap from the fuel pump taking it out to a CM 2250 that’s a 450st and use the CM 2350 ECM. And just bolted it up I was wondering if it should have been reprogrammed or is it ok to run with the cm2350 ecm.
RE: cm2350 ecm on cm2250 engine - Rawze - 01-19-2022
(01-19-2022 )RGM Wrote: I’m looking at a truck that had a CM2350 500 hp and they did a engine swap from the fuel pump taking it out to a CM 2250 that’s a 450st and use the CM 2350 ECM. And just bolted it up I was wondering if it should have been reprogrammed or is it ok to run with the cm2350 ecm.
Will it fire off and run?.. yup.. will it be right,.. NOT AT ALL!. - Repair shops can be so incredibly dumb it seems!.
it will not run it correctly without some serious custom programming made for it. The injectors will be incorrect, the compression ratios will be incorrect, the cam profile will be incorrect, and all sorts of other problems that will make it run far less than optimal.. not only that, but it will shorten its life by a significant amount because of this too.
-- Where are you buying this struck from??? a junk-yard?
it is also not legal to operate within the usa, etc.. , as the year manufacture and all emissions system components also have to go with the engine itself... meaning no one bothered swapping the emissions systems if it has a CM2350 ecm on it.
Before purchasing it.. and when considering the price of such an idiotic oversight by some likely, complete moron of a shop, etc. who would do this without any idea of what they had done ... i hope they are selling it on the real cheap... because any buyer also needs to heavily consider that If they want to own a truck that is not legally going to pass any kind of emissions inspections, like in California, Jew-jerky, etc.. and possibly future states... ... that it also would not even qualify as a "glider' either, unless someone goes back and installs all of the CM2250 emissions on it + the secondary controller that the CM2250 ecm's had.. of which it would require a CM2250 ecm to operate.
I am not saying it cannot be done.. It happens every so often around here where someone comes on here that has already been duped by that crap of an idea. There is a way to make it work, without the emissions systems operating, simply because they are not compatible... so the shortest answer would be...
It can work.. without the emissions systems .. but there is only one single person who is able to make such a program run that engine 100% correctly with the wrong ecm on it.
- Can a custom program be properly made to operate that CM2250 engine on a CM2350 ECM?.,.. yes (without the emissions systems, they are not compatible). This has had to be done for quite a few people who end up with this situation because of some shops stupidity, and then end up in such a debacle... that person who always ends up making the correct program for this kinds of CM2250/2350-engine or CM2350/2250-engine types of situations.. is me.
RE: cm2350 ecm on cm2250 engine - RGM - 01-19-2022
It’s a buddy’s shop he also has a business of selling trucks and he happen to have this one that was sitting their. I was looking at and asked him what the story was on it and that’s what he told me they did an engine swap. All of the original emissions are still on it and hooked up. I was worried that it should’ve been programmed differently. I was just looking and thought that that swap wasn’t right from what I know. Thanks for the info.
RE: cm2350 ecm on cm2250 engine - Rawze - 01-19-2022
(01-19-2022 )RGM Wrote: It’s a buddy’s shop he also has a business of selling trucks and he happen to have this one that was sitting their. I was looking at and asked him what the story was on it and that’s what he told me they did an engine swap. All of the original emissions are still on it and hooked up. I was worried that it should’ve been programmed differently. I was just looking and thought that that swap wasn’t right from what I know. Thanks for the info.
Even if all the emissions systems are left operating .. and a program is made for that ecm to operate that lower compression engine as best it can + emissions systems too ... that engine simply does not have high enough compression ratio, or high enough spray angles on the injectors, etc... and will always output the wrong emission for that newer CM2350 standard .. It would be precarious at best.. and will certainly lead, for whoever owned it, ... to having nothing but repeated problems out of the emissions systems.
In short order.. it will have to be de-mandated for it to any sort of long-term chance of not being someone's perpetual headache and nightmare.
Considering that it is not currently advertised as "de-mandated", like you say ...
U need to go back and tell them that they can only sell it on the cheap as a "deleted" equipment .. and it ends up getting a proper program, any hardware changes, etc. made for it as such... . Or, if they are in the USA and are not the risky type of place who wants to risk getting fi$$NED!!! for selling equipment that is not legal to operate ... they need to undo it, and put the correct engine back in it if they value their business and reputation at all!.
These engine's are NOT mix-and-match, just because someone wishes them to be. it is always some idiot who thinks they can "cheat the system" trying to save some $$$ on the cheap .. by buying an incorrect model, used, or putting a different engine in that may look the same, is exactly where these stupid ideas come from.
If it were in a foreign country where the emissions systems did not matter.. and there was no need for the legal requirements of those systems to follow the engine model itself .. then that is one thing. Like mentioned, a proper program can be made for it.
My suspicion however is that this is not the case, and is the reason that I say those things above. The real issue is when the average joe, wanting to purchase a used truck, who may not want to be part of the "its deleted" croud... comes along and buys it not knowing any better. These kinds of legalities and shortcomings need to be well understood in advance before getting someone caught up into a mess that they would not normally be willing to be a part of.
For example, what happens in 5 or 6 years when these pollitically-blue-tard democraps amp up all the epa's funding to try to rid out highways of all older trucks by requiring all sorts of emissions testing crap.. like that communist state is now starting to do.. .. , if it becomes a norm/requirement to get their equipment emissions tested every year in the state that person may live in.. and now there is no way possible to make it legal again without swapping the whole engine out back to the proper one. - Those are the things that I am trying to say. Sure, there are plenty of people who take that risk already for whatever reason they have.. I do not knock them for what they do.. but for someone purchasing equipment who does not know any better.. and has no desire to "run it illegally".. this could be a big problem real fast if they have been sold something that "according to the seller".. is supposed to be legal. - That would be a lie.
Personally I don't care either way.. de-mandated or not.. really I don't .. but for someone to sell a piece of equipment with false promises, either out of sheer ignorance (simply not knowing any better) .. or purposeful deceit.. .. That, I DO have a problem with real fast, and will point it out as such., Ignorance is easily cured by informing someone of their mis-step or oversight.. it then becomes a matter of what they want to do about it after that.
I am not trying to be some kind of dudly-do-right.. far from it.. but I do think that someone should be very well informed of the situation they are getting themselves into before buying into a piece of used equipment that is not going to be technically "legal" no matter what they do without swapping out the whole engine back out again. If they ever did find themselves in that kind of situation where it actually matters, it would fall right back onto who sold it to them. It is one thing to have to buy a new DOC/DPF/SCR to "undo" something.. but entirely another to do all that + have to buy a whole engine to go with that too... or an entire (CM2250 in this case) emissions system, + ecm, + emissions system harnesses + all the stuff to properly register it as a "glider". Both of these solutions would equally be a complete nightmare of expenses that would likely cost more than the truck is worth by the time is was done.
just some thoughts while sipping on my 3rd beer.