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+--- Thread: 2250 Oil in Coolant. (/showthread.php?tid=8171)
2250 Oil in Coolant. - 5cylinder - 04-18-2022
Hello, I have a 2013 Peterbilt with the 2250 engine that is pushing oil in the coolant. The oil cooler was removed and tested before I got the project. The cooler tested good but was replaced. Couple months and 4k miles and the same problem is back. I pressurized the coolant system to 20 psi and removed the turbo drain line to see if the seals in the turbo let go. (thinking that if the truck was off the pressure would go the other way). System held pressure over night to 11psi and nothing came out of the turbo. Removed the head and sent to a machine shop for testing. They said it was good. Removed the pistons and liners to inspect the liners. O-rings showed signs of breaking down but I think its just from the oil in the cooling system. No cracks and and abnormal wear at all. I've checked with quickserve and not seeing any more troubleshooting steps to go on. Anyone got and more ideas to check. I really don't want to inframe this engine and then have the same problem return.
RE: 2250 Oil in Coolant. - tree98 - 04-19-2022
Here's a link to a similar problem
https://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=7950
RE: 2250 Oil in Coolant. - Rawze - 04-19-2022
My biggest concern is why would someone tear the entire engine down that far to find the cause of oil in coolant without first identifying the bad component. This sounds like someone guessing blindly at the expense of the truck owner to me. This did not make any sense. Tearing it down without finding the actual issue first becomes anyone's guess as to what the problem really was .. or if it got fixed at all by the time the engine goes back together.
most likely causes: https://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=7741&pid=67889#pid67889
RE: 2250 Oil in Coolant. - 5cylinder - 04-19-2022
The new cooler was the updated cooler with updated gasket set. The reason I tore the engine down was if the cooling system pressurized wasn't loosing pressure or coolant, Then dropping the pan isnt going to show its self so I wanted to test the head. When the machine shop said the head was good, I wanted to visually inspect the liner o-rings. I'm not trying to dispute, just trying to educate myself for the future. The last thing I would want to do is to waste customer money.
RE: 2250 Oil in Coolant. - tree98 - 04-19-2022
I wouldn't trust anyone to test a head and tell me it's good. Your taking an enormous gamble if you put that head back on.
RE: 2250 Oil in Coolant. - marek4792 - 04-19-2022
Is the transmission air cooled or by a heat exchanger? You'd be surprised how often this is overlooked..
RE: 2250 Oil in Coolant. - Rawze - 04-19-2022
(04-19-2022 )5cylinder Wrote: ...
if the cooling system pressurized wasn't loosing pressure or coolant, Then dropping the pan isnt going to show its self so I wanted to test the head. When the machine shop said the head was good, I wanted to visually inspect the liner o-rings. I'm not trying to dispute, just trying to educate myself for the future. The last thing I would want to do is to waste customer money.
that is bad logic.
UNLESS IT IS A CATASTROPHIC FAILURE SOMEWHERE THAN CAN EASILY BE FOUND ... OIL IN COOLANT IS USUALLY A SEEPAGE PROBLEM!!.. ONE THAT TAKES TIME FOR THE OIL TO BUILD UP INTO THE COOLANT SYSTEM.
So pressurizing the coolant system to make it go back the other way .. Is also a seepage issue! .. That takes time to show itself.. Usually at about half the rate that the oil is seeping at due to only being able to pressurize the coolant system safely to 20 psi instead of the 40+ psi that the oil system can have on it.
This means that most of the time ... Unless there is some already obvious type of serious failure... When someone has coolant getting seeping into the engine and going where it should not be getting (because someone pressurized it to 20 psi and let it sit all night.. to find an issue) .. It does not easily show up at the coolant tank as any kind of pressure or volume losses that can be confirmed ... It does not typically drop by any confirmed amount that someone can say definitively ... Therefore most of the time, with a seepage issue, it is mostly useless to stand there and stare at the coolant pressure/level for the most part.
Therefore, if all that was used is looking at the coolant levels and pressure to determine that someone's engine had to be torn completely down ....ON A seepage problem ... And the pan was not dropped ... The oil filter, pump, etc. Was not removed and the oil cooler circuit area and piping was not checked visually and/or with a with boroscope, etc.. For coolant seepage when testing for a day+, etc... AFTER the oil cooler itself was 100% confirmed not to be leaking again ...
THEN IT WAS INDEED GUESSING AT IT WITH SOMEONE ELSE'S EXPENSE!.
The coolant system is a 15+ gallon system ... So unless it has a serious leak somewhere ... And it dropped a half-gallon+ into the oil system ... Which it is not likely to do unless the oil was already pushing 2+ gallons into the coolant system in that same time span that you tested the system by .. Which i seriously doubt it did this.. Because it would have been something catastrophic and easy to find ... Then you will not see any goddamn$ difference in pressure drop or level losses at the coolant tank! ... It has to be quite the bad leak for a problem to be seen at the coolant tank alone!.
If it did not push a gallon+ of oil into the coolant system every couple hours or so... And the coolant level rising by large amounts and overflowing ... Then it is not going to push coolant back the other way that fast when under half that much pressure during a test!!.
And did anyone ... Before accusing the most expensive parts of the engine ... Did they bother to determine it was not the transmission, or other gearbox, pto device, etc. First?.. By checking what type of cooling system they had?. Draining / testing tranny or other gearboxes that might be part of the coolant system oil into a cup/bucket to see if coolant was mixing with the tranny or any gearboxes?
So.. Yes ... If the seepage cannot be determined by any of the other the normal methods ...
AND THE OIL COOLER--- Which is the number one culprit of oil in the coolant problems, and YES it can get leaky again even with new components... was not removed, plated, dunked into a water barrel with 40+ psi of shop air on it to determine definitively that it was not leaky again...
Then the next step .. Before tearing down the engine ... Is -- yes --= to drop the oil pan and stiffening plate ... Clean up everything under the engine ... And put pressure on the coolant system for a day+ .. Maybe 2 if needed.. And find the seepage as it finally starts to build up somewhere in reverse! ... While checking and boroscoping components, passages, head, etc... For coolant buildup/ seepage as needed.
There are MANY PLACES that both pressurized oil and coolant meet, including in the turbocharger, the air compressor, the oil cooler (number one culprit almost always, always), and for many trucks, also the tranny, gearboxes, maybe a pto device, external pump, etc. .. and I can tell you that definitively.. the head itself (or head gasket) .. is the very least likely place to ever allow OIL into the coolant system. To suspect it so easily or quickly, shows a lack of ISX experience. .. However.. It is not uncommon that the head allows FUEL into the coolant system. Are you 100% sure it was not FUEL?!
SO BEFORE RESORTING TO TEARING THE ENGINE APART!. THAT HEAD SHOULD NOT HAVE COME OFF IT WHILE STILL TRYING TO DETERMINE WHAT THE ACTUAL SEEPAGE ISSUE WAS. THAT WAS THE MISTAKE -- AND PULLING THE LINERS TOO? ... AT THIS POINT, IT WILL MOST LIKELY COST THAT TRUCK OWNER A WHOLE HECK OF A LOT OF MONEY UNNECESSARILY with regard to any "oil in the coolant" issue . because NOW, it will need counter-boring and liners raised to 0.015", and an overhaul kit, a new head, and a whole lot of other components at this point .. and when it goes all back together.. it will likely STILL HAVE THE OIL SEEPAGE ISSUE! because it had not been properly identified before the engine came apart.
RE: 2250 Oil in Coolant. - Rawze - 04-19-2022
(04-19-2022 )5cylinder Wrote: ... I wanted to visually inspect the liner o-rings.
..
THAT IS ANOTHER MISTAKE!!!.. There is no oil pressure at the liner o-rings!!.. There is not even high volume splash oil at the liner o-rings!!!... They are to hold back coolant.. Not oil!.
Again it would be a serious waste of money to pull liners out of an engine to look at those o-rings at all unless there was --- already coolant seen seeping into the engine with the pan off it during a coolant pressure test.
Hopefully you are here to learn how an isx engine works and become a better isx engine mechanic!!.. Because if i were at a shop that did those things to my truck.. And said they pulled the liners just to look at their o-rings due to oil getting into the coolant .. Me knowing that those o-rings could not be a proper cause of oil seepage into the coolant system ... Then I would want to run as far away from that place as possible!.
Lack of education and/or proper understanding on how these engines work should not cost someone else an inframe unnecessarily!.. As a truck owner, that would have made my blood boil!.