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Best Choice For New O/O, Questions - Journey - 08-12-2022
Cheers all, first post.
Been lurking for a long while, and learning a ton, so thank you all for this great forum. I've read Rawze's book, and am fully in line with the DIY nature of this forum. I started driving as a second career, and pulled chemical tanks as a company driver for 3 years learning the job.
Recently took a break from driving (left on good terms), to work on my little homestead, but ready to get back in the saddle, only this time I'd like to do it as an o/o. But before I buy a truck, I know there's still some things I need to figure out. Hoping to get some experienced advice.
My goal is to find a good used truck and drive it per Rawze's recommendations. With those recommendations as a starting guide (CM870/871, '08-'11 prostar) is there anything that might be different if its for tanker?
The company I drove for is who I would sign on with. The terminal is in WKY, and runs mostly Midwest, TX, and SE. Their system drivers are loaded to 78-79K probably 80% or more of the time. Very few empty miles.
Besides a raised 5th wheel, what differences should I be aware of for tanker? The WB on most of the company trucks I think are about 237? (Volvo) and 240ish (KW680's). Need just enough room for APU, Hose Rack, and a Hydra Chem system or roper pump. They run 75ga fuel tanks, and I think max weight needs to be under ~20k or less.
I've seen used truck prices starting to come down, and I think I can find a prostar in the 20-25K price range on the popular listing sites. I know it will take a lot more to get it road worthy, including a complete overhaul. What does a complete overhaul run these day$?
Sorry bit long on the post, just trying to give pertinent info for the questions raised. I appreciate any feedback, and if this has all been answered 50 times before, I apologize. I've done a bit of searching, and haven't found a lot pertaining to tanker. That might be the answer to my question in itself, but I didn't think it would hurt to ask.
Cheers!
RE: Best Choice For New O/O, Questions - Rawze - 08-13-2022
It needs to be geared properly for slinging around 80k lbs. That makes it hard to find a truck these days without investing an additional $4,500 in a proper set of rears after purchase.
Something with a set of 3.70's or maybe even 3.90's would be one of the better specs, and avoiding anything taller (lower ratio) than about 3.55's.
NEXT: ABSOLUTELY NO SUPER-SINGLES for a tanker!. It is very dangerous and can cause the tanker to flip if a tire is lost on the road.
As well, personally, I would want a set of 46k rated rears too. That way all the extra load on them while stopping, etc. is not over-stressing the rear axles of the truck.
Just some thoughts... and yeah, I would prefer a CM871 over anything newer too, unless someone is going to the communist state out west where they are soon to be not allowed any more.
RE: Best Choice For New O/O, Questions - Journey - 08-13-2022
Thanks for the feedback, I had not thought about 46k rears to reduce the stress on the axle.
In regards to wheelbase and the gap between truck and trailer, I 'm wondering what might be considered ideal as far as mpg. Because I use hoses, I do need access to the rack, but I'm a bit unsure of how wide I can go before compromising overall maneuverability. There are a few customers with tight spaces.
Before I started driving, I thought I'd achieve some good numbers because the whole truck+trailer was shaped like a missile. But after driving for a while, I felt like there was some serious drag from the gap between truck and trailer and that was a major contributor to lower mpg. In the I-shift I averaged about 7.2mpg. In the AMT 660, I think my average was 6.8mpg.
Thanks again.
RE: Best Choice For New O/O, Questions - Rawze - 08-13-2022
An I-shift assumes a Volvo chassis. That is one of the worst, still-Aero trucks out there for fuel economy. It, with the I-shift is about 1.3 mpg less fuel efficient than a cascadia or prostar given all other circumstances the same. An I-shift makes it again less efficient by as much as 0.6 mpg vs a decent driver. Those Auto-s$itter trannies are not nearly as good as they advertise unless someone don't know how to drive a truck at all or shift it right.
If ya want something fuel efficient by design, then a Prostar would be the top choice for a tanker... just match up the height as best ya can for the trailer.
as far as gap in the cab to trailer.. it is important, but only by a few tenths unless you are a screaming demon on the road ways. It is far mote important to just simply slow the he@ll down a bit and drive by a boost gauge.
here is a comparison of different truck chassis vs fuel efficiency...
ref: http://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=374&pid=2688#pid2688
RE: Best Choice For New O/O, Questions - Pigpen 2869 - 08-13-2022
I did a lot of tank work for QC and Dana. If you go with a Paccar product the Fkex-air suspention is absolutely bulletproof. I ran a hydraulic driven pump and compressor for a short while actually preffferrd shaft driven better. If you use heavy rears it will make it a lil difficult to hit the weight you are looking for. Once you start with hoses fittings stuff adds up real quick.
RE: Best Choice For New O/O, Questions - Papa_Buck - 08-13-2022
To figure the distance you need to turn is as follows
From the center of your trailer to the outmost edge should be less than from the kingpin to the back edge of your truck.
So with a flatbed that is 102 wide, I need 56 inches. My kingpin is set at 18 inches so I need 34 inches from the front of my trailer for a 90 degree turn. When I load rebar, I can move it to within 8 inches from my headache rack. With tall loads you need to be aware or the tip up and down.
With a tanker, I’m sure they set their king pin back further than I but I would guess your hose rack could be tucked behind a fairing and you wouldn’t need much space open at all
RE: Best Choice For New O/O, Questions - Journey - 08-13-2022
(08-13-2022 )Papa_Buck Wrote: To figure the distance you need to turn is as follows...
Thank you for this^
(08-13-2022 )Pigpen 2869 Wrote: I ran a hydraulic driven pump and compressor for a short while actually preffferrd shaft driven better. If you use heavy rears it will make it a lil difficult to hit the weight you are looking for. Once you start with hoses fittings stuff adds up real quick.
Indeed it does! Weight is something I need to figure out. The guys in the shop know the numbers on the rack/hoses/roper, etc. I'll need to get those figures again.
I like the idea of the hydraulic system, but for the price the roper pump is about 1/10th the price and only about 95lbs. I think that hydraulic system weighs in at ~400lbs. Also, I only use the pump about 10% of the time, so not sure if the hydraulic option is worth the price tag.
(08-13-2022 )Rawze Wrote: If ya want something fuel efficient by design, then a Prostar would be the top choice for a tanker... just match up the height as best ya can for the trailer.
I'm open to other choices, but just leaning hard into your previous advice. Prostar or maybe Cascadia would be my first choice.
One point I will say is that for the work I did, I enjoyed the tighter turning radius of the volvo compared to the 680 or 660. It was often helpful in tight tank yards and a few customer yards, but not a deal breaker.
@Rawze, what's the weight on your tractor with tanks full? I heard Internationals run a little heavy. I'm also targeting 2011, since I think I read somewhere they shaved off 400lbs from previous years.
Cheers
RE: Best Choice For New O/O, Questions - Pigpen 2869 - 08-13-2022
The biggest problem with the hydraulic is when you are pumping you only have ON. We used to use a slightly slower pto and when you were pumping a heavy product the pump ran nice and slow and smoothe. If you were pumping something lite like Methanol you just idled up a bit and life was good. This is making me miss tank work
RE: Best Choice For New O/O, Questions - Rawze - 08-13-2022
(08-13-2022 )Journey Wrote: ...
I'm open to other choices, but just leaning hard into your previous advice. Prostar or maybe Cascadia would be my first choice.
One point I will say is that for the work I did, I enjoyed the tighter turning radius of the volvo compared to the 680 or 660. It was often helpful in tight tank yards and a few customer yards, but not a deal breaker.
@Rawze, what's the weight on your tractor with tanks full? I heard Internationals run a little heavy. I'm also targeting 2011, since I think I read somewhere they shaved off 400lbs from previous years.
Cheers
If empty weight is of a concern then a cascadia is a lighter truck.. one of the lightest. .. however your giving up a bit of extra rigidity that a prostar has (why they weigh a bit more).
as a reference ...
I know that on a dry-box, I can haul 45.5k in the box when it reaches 80,000, but a Cascadia with same spec as my prostar, they can put 47k on one before it hits 80,000. That is about 1,500 lbs difference.