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+--- Thread: Cold no Start cm870 (/showthread.php?tid=8789)
Cold no Start cm870 - Shinaver - 03-11-2023
Hello to all,
I have owned this 2007 international 9900ix for 4 years with a cm870 current mileage 1.2
million. No rebuild or engine work has been performed during those years.
So let me set this up. During the winter months when the truck is plugged in there is no
problem with start up at all no matter the the temp. Now the ugly side. When the outside
temp
is at or below 32 degrees the truck will not start without aid like ether.
Took it to the local garage that i have been doing business with for 4 years. The computer
showed inaccurate ambient temp,they replaced the intake air sensor and sent it out the
door.
Next morning approx. 30 degrees outside not plugged in, truck would not start without aid.
The shop says without throwing parts and money at it, they don't know what is the matter.
So i need to know how does warming the coolant in the engine change how the engine will
start at those temps.
The shop said that fuel pressure is good, no leaks in system, no codes present until after
trying to start when not plugged in, and then the codes relate to cranking time.
Please feel free to ask questions, i have tried to find the anwser in the forum without any
luck.
RE: Cold no Start cm870 - Rawze - 03-11-2023
with a statement that implies roughly, "no one has touched it" ... that can be very dangerous.
- when was the last time the overhead valves were adjusted?.
- When was the last time the overhead cams were inspected?.
- when was the crank shaft damper replaced?.
- Is the EGR unplugged? / does it have delete programming in it? etc.etc.?..
- and if the ambient temp was reading wrong... then why did they change the intake temp sensor, and not the ambient temp sensor?. H#ell WHY did someone not replace ALL the old sensors that were more than 600k miles old!!!>??? + clean out all EGR the piping, etc?>
. -- AND AT 1.2 MILLION+.. REPLACE THE HALF-CARB0NED-UP DAMNED MUFFLER TOO!
- When is the last time an EGR tune-up was done to it?... Exhaust pressure sensor cleaned + its feed-circuit cleaned out?... and the Delta-P sensor and feed tubes?... and the intake temp sensor replaced?. .. etc.etc.etc.
- AND When was the last time someone did a proper injector leak-test on it>?>>>
ref: http://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=7747&pid=67948#pid67948
- When was the last time someone did a compression leak test on it>?... if ever?
- When was the last time the fueling and timing actuators werte replaced?... how old are they>?.. and did anyone bother to inspect them recently???.
ref: http://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=110&pid=619#pid619
VVVVVVVV
I.E.> these things do not keep after themselves, and just driving it like a fool until the problems set in, or the check engine lights start showing up .. is very very bad for a modern engine!
AND an even bigger concern with that kind of age ... and based on your statements, for a CM870 with 1.2 million on it is ... when was the rod and man bearings last changed / bottom end bearings was done?.
RE: Cold no Start cm870 - Rawze - 03-11-2023
continuing my last post...
and as far as your "no-crank" condition when cold.. you did not describe it very well. Does it turn over a bit sluggish, like the batteries or starter is weak?... or does it turn over briskly, like a new starter and batteries would? etc?.
Does the oil pressure gauge in the dash show a few psi above zero, after about 15-20 seconds of cranking time.. when it is stuck in a no-start condition?.
also.. did anyone really bother to test the no-crank condition PROPERLY!?... and monitor the fuel pressure and oil pressure in the ecm itself during cranking?... What was the fuel pressure reading in the ECM (and not with an external gauge) getting up to, according to the Insite software during cranking, when it was acting up?.
RE: Cold no Start cm870 - Shinaver - 03-11-2023
Hello,
Thank you for replying to my question. Many questions you ask.
Unfortunately the answer to most if not all is that i do not know.
I will say that if this truck worked in a year round warm climate
we would not be having this conversation. This trucks runs good
works daily pully an 8 axle trailer hauling steel with loads with an
average 100k on the deck. 4.8 mpg.
The shop did use mechanical gauges to check fuel pressure, said
it is good. Mechanical pump replaced approx. 200k miles ago. Batteries
will be 4 years old in June. They load test good, starter replaced
with high torque 6 months ago.
Getting back to the main question. Taking into consideration all of
the components you brought up earlier. Coolant temp. is the only
variable that separates a starting truck and having a no start condition.
What changes, how and why. Correctly answer that question and we
have solved this dilema.
RE: Cold no Start cm870 - Rawze - 03-11-2023
(03-11-2023 )Shinaver Wrote: Hello,
Thank you for replying to my question. Many questions you ask.
Unfortunately the answer to most if not all is that i do not know.
I will say that if this truck worked in a year round warm climate
we would not be having this conversation. This trucks runs good
works daily pully an 8 axle trailer hauling steel with loads with an
average 100k on the deck. 4.8 mpg.
The shop did use mechanical gauges to check fuel pressure, said
it is good. Mechanical pump replaced approx. 200k miles ago. Batteries
will be 4 years old in June. They load test good, starter replaced
with high torque 6 months ago.
Getting back to the main question. Taking into consideration all of
the components you brought up earlier. Coolant temp. is the only
variable that separates a starting truck and having a no start condition.
What changes, how and why. Correctly answer that question and we
have solved this dilemma.
I think you kinda missed the point there.
External gauges mean nothing vs. what that ecm sees.
maybe that repair shop needs some proper training?.
again ... WHAT IS THE FUEL PRESSURES SHOWING IN INSITE DURING CRANKING??? .. AND OIL PRESSURES???... ON THE ECM???... BECAUSE THE DAMNED THING WILL NOT FIRE OFF THE CYLINDERS IF THE FUEL PRESSURE IS BELOW A CERTIAN PRESSURE THRESHOLD IN THE ECM!!!. - IT IS NOT LOOKING AT THE COOLANT TEMPS DURING CRANKING!!!.. IT IS LOOKING AT THE FUEL PRESSURES!!!
YOU ARE NOT LISTENING!!!!!!!
and ... I DON'T CARE HOW WELL YOU THINK IT RUNS!!!.. IF THOSE ROD AND MAIN BEARINGS WERE NOT REPLACED AT THE 800K MILE MARK LIKE THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN- -- .. THEN AT 1.2 MILLION ... THAT ENGINE IS NOW A GODDAM#N TICKING TIME BOMB!!!!! ... THAT IS GOING TO PUT A PISTON THRU THE SIDE OF THE DAMN ENGINE BLOCK WITH ABSOLUTELY ZERO GODDAMN WARNING AT THIS POINT!!! ... YOU ARE NOT LISTENING TO WHAT WAS POSTED!!!.. YOU SEEM TO BE BLINDED BY YOUR OWN MIS-GUIDED THOUGHTS IT SEEMS!!!.. YOU DID NOT ANSWER THIS .. SO SOMEONE CAN ONLY ASSUME THAT THE ENGINE HAS NOT BEEN CARED FOR PROPERLY OVER THE YEARS AT THIS POINT!... AND THAT IS NOT GOOD AT ALL!!!. NOT ONE BIT!!. THIS IS THE TYPE OF BLINDNESS THAT TRUCK OWNERS GET INTO "BECAUSE IT SEEMS TO RUN OK FOR NOW" IS EXACTLY WHY THERE ARE REALLY BAD THINGS IN ITS FUTURE!!!. IGNORING AND NOT DOING ALL OF THE RECOMMENDED MAINTENANCE ITEMS FOR THE ENGINE EVENTUALLY LEADS TO A CATASTROPHIC FAILURE WHEN YOU LEAST EXPECT IT TO HAPPEN.
SOME FOOL KEEPS DRIVING THAT THING WELL PAST THE 1_ MILLION MILE MARK.. THEY HAD BETTER WELL DAM,N HAVE DONE THOSE ROD/MAIN BEARINGS IN ITS PAST AT AROUND THE 800K MARK OR SO ... THEN YOU HAD BEST MAKE SOME PLANS REAL SOON TO HAVE THE WHOLE ENGINE INFRAMED AT THIS POINT --- BEFORE IT BECOMES A BOAT ANCHOR!. IT IS NOTHING AT ALL TO TAKE LIGHTLY.. NOT ONE DAMN BIT!.. AND IS FAR MORE IMPORTANT THAN IT NOT WANTING TO CRANK SOMETIMES.
AND AGAIN...
WHEN IS THE LAST TIME THE CRANK SHAFT DAMPER WAS REPLACED!???.... IF THAT DAMNED CRANK SHAFT DAMPER IS NO GOOD ANY MORE THEN IT WILL CAUSE JUST ENOUGH VIBRATION THAT WILL MAKE THE DAMNNED ECM FLAKY AND NOT WANT TO RUN PROPERLY WHEN COLD ... OR FOR IT TO RANDOMLY DIE AS COMPONENTS ON ITS CIRCUIT Board start vibrating loose!. IT IS A VERY COMMON ISSUE.. AND MIGHT BE RELATED TO YOUR NO-START ISSUES AT TIMES. == BUT YOU WERE NOT LISTENING!!!. . -=-= again/.. read my damn post!!!..
EVERY DAMN BIT IF WHAT I SAID ABOVE ABSOLUTELY HAS TO DO WITH YOUR ISSUES AND THE HEALTH OF THAT ENGINE AS A WHOLE!!!.. ABSOLUTELY!!... BUT YOUR LAST POST SHOWS THAT YOU ARE BLINDED BY SOME SHORT-SIGHTED IDEA OF SOME SORT INSTEAD!!!
GO BACK AND RE-READ EVERYTHING./.. CAREFULLY!!.. THERE IS A REASON FOR ALL OF IT!!!.
Looks to me like you have gotten blinded by your own thoughts on what might be wrong. ... Seems that you are not concerned so much with all the things I posted about. .. OF WHICH YOU SHOULD BE REALLY REALLY CONCERNED WITH!!..
SO...
No one can help you if you do not listen and do not do and consider these things /make the tests recommended above .. your last post implies that you are stuck on one subject and are NOT LISTENING!!!>.. AND ALSO RELYING ON "THE MECHANIC" .. INSTEAD OF TAKING MATTERS INTO YOUR OWN HANDS SO THAT YOU CAN SOLVE THEM PROPERLY!>
You wanted some help, otherwise you would not have joined.. . .. but it seems that you wanted some kind of miracle wish-it-away sauce advice or something. THAT IS NO WAY TO TREAT A DAMNED COMMERCIAL PIECE OF EQUIPMENT!!!!
{this user has been muted to prevent them embarrassing themselves further}.
I cannot help you.. no one can.. you do not seem to be concerned with much of any of the things THAT ACTUALLY COUNT TOWARDS A HEALTHY ENGINE/TRUCK AND SOLVING ITS ISSUES!!!