INSITE REPORT - PRE PURCHASE INSPECTION

[NoTruckYet]

Looking at 2009 International Prostar with Cummins ISX and AMT 795,000 miles. $25,000 new tires - drives well.

I asked the used-truck sales lot permission to put on dyno, and the owner, who is also a long-time Cummins tech said 'No-Way' on the dyno, could ruin a good high mileage engine. Instead, he hooked up InSite computer and pulled the following data, at idle. -This is an incomplete list but I understand the things that are not on the following list.

PARAMETER VALUE UNITS MIN MAX
Aftertreat Diesel Oxidation Cat Intake Temp 164.3 f 164.1 164.3
Aftertrt Diesel Ox Cat Intake Temp Signal Volt 4.63 V 4.63 4.63
Aftertrt Diesel Particulate Filtr Diff Pressure 0.06 inHg 0.06 0.06
" " " Sensor Signal Voltage 0.69 V 0.69 0.69
Aftertrt Diesel Particulate Filt intake temp 117.8 F 117.8 117.8
Aftertrt Diesel Part Filter Operat Status Off
Aftertrt Diesel Particulate soot load status Normal
Aftertrt Injector status Closed
Crankcase Pressure note:(Max 6.5) .03 inH20 .02 .04
ECM Distance 794,939
ECM TIME 030372:01:53
EGR Cooler Efficiency 100 percent 100 100
EGR Differential Pressure .09 inHg .09 .09
Coolant Temp 162.9
Engine Distance 794,870.3
Engine Oil Pressure 24.8 24.8 24.8
Engine Oil Temperature 165.5
Engine Operating State Low Speed Governor State
Engine Speed 611 RPM
Engine Warmup Protection Status Inactive
Exhaust Gas Pressure 38.32 inHg 37.16 39.19
Exhaust Mass Flowrate 3.5 lb/min 3.3 3.5
Fuel Rail Pressure Measured 247
Keyswitch Off Counts 6608
Turbo % Closed (at idle) 96% closed

The Short Term Map 1 - I would have to attach a picture. 9.7% of time engine at idle. 9.8% of time between 800 and 1200 RPM. 38% of time engine has run between 1200 and 1400 rpm over 29,655 hours. 6/10 of 1% of time, engine has run between 1600 and 1800 rpm. 50% of total across all RPM ranges.

They have cleaned / serviced egr, put new turbo on the truck.

The oil was last changed when it came off lease - mileage could not be determined but it was a local/regional. They would allow an oil analysis - but without mileage since oil change unknown may not give accurate readings. The oil is NOT as clean as Rawze's truck - it's pretty dark, but not jet black.

Many advise to just 'go out and buy a new truck' but that is not in the cards.

Looking for a better understanding of the report and suggestions on check-out. They have cleaned the EGR pipes and the owner of sales dealership is on Cummins engine development team and knows every nut and bolt of a cummins. Everthing on lot has a cummins.

I flew to CA to look at truck and making a decision - leaving Sunday 2/17.

Thanks for y'alls input.

[flatbed94kid]

Hopefully someone here who knows the specs better will chime in.

[Nilao]

No dyno, no sale....

That reasoning that a dyno could ruin a good high mileage is a crock of sh#t...what the hell do the expect the truck is going to do on the road pulling a trailer???? Idle down the road so you don't chance ruining a high mileage motor? No, you're going to run it just like they would on a dyno. As a matter of fact a dyno is safer because they are monitoring all the parameters and if one gets out of safe range the dyno is cancelled right then.

I'd flat out tell them no dyno then drop the price 10k so you can repair that high mileage engine later being they are sure a dyno will blow it up.

[Chamberpains]

I agree with Nilao. A dyno is nothing compared to real world work abuse. Offer to pay for the Dyno. Maybe with contingencies to buy it if it passes test standards and what ever other things you want to see in good condition.

Also the numbers you posted are while its still warming up. It never reached operating temperatures. A lot of things can start leaking and showing their flaws after operating temp is reached.

Im not certain, but i think 96% turbo closed during warm up seems a little high. I don't own a cm871 but my cm870 only goes to 70% in warm up mode. Does this truck have correct calibration for the ECM or has it been brain butchered?

[Rawze]

(02-15-2019 )NoTruckYet Wrote:  ...

ECM TIME 030372:01:53

...
over 29,655 hours.
...

That thing has the equiv of 1.4 mil. miles on it,... it will need an inframe before even putting it on the roads,... unless you want to drive it around knowing it is a ticking time bomb ready to throw a piston through the block. - that very well may be why they won't let you dyno it, someone already knows this, or is hiding something else, like the signs of liner fretting failures that it likely has setting in from the way it has been driven.

I'd offer em 15 - 18k for it if the rest of the truck is in good shape and tear it apart / inframe it (put another 15-18k in OEM internals) before putting in on the roads. Otherwise, it is not worth anyones time.

it has also lived a hard life, driven mostly below 1500-rpm,.. driven in the bottom 1/3 of its working range,.. very hard on engine, likely geared wrong for what it was used for, -- it is ready for new liners at this point when you add up all the below-1500 abuse and those high hours on the clock. - I have no idea where or why the trucking industry has leaned towards abusing thses engines by driving them in only the lower rpm ranges,.. bad marketing, bad gearing, and bad habbits from truck companies governing trucks in bad ways.

Anyone reading this,.. if they have this "drive it below 1500" mentality,.. they need to re-learn how to drive a truck, especially with an ISX engine in it,.. -- 1650 (or anywhere from 1500 - 1850) is the best place to put the engine under a hard pull,.. anything under 1500 and your making 20+lbs boost or more and your just beating up on the internals.

[NoTruckYet]

THANKS. ! ! ! ! To everyone. Especially Rawze for the forum and caring about people trying to make a buck and keep their trucks on road. (I owned a few box trucks without computer controlls or EGR years ago so these newer things are foriegn to me)

I flew to CA and spent 3 days examining this truck. Better to have $400 out of pocket for the trip than to have a lemon. I reviewed Rawze's videos and checked everything I could find, including a little bit of blow by at idle through the oil filler hole and they said "That's nothing." I pointed out that A/C didn't work, didn't blow through vents when switched, and Engine Brake didn't work. Their response "We're not going to build you a new truck."

I said "buh bye."

Again, thanks to everyone. - Kevin