Paccar mx13 epa13 coolant in fuel!!!

[Rawze]

Coolant in the fuel system rapidly eats the entire fuel system components (and everything else it invades that has moving, lubricated parts) up rapidly.

I guess your statements above heavily implies that you don't care about re-occurring damage to the fuel system, etc. + a possible hydra-lock condition (and far more severe damage) if an injector or cylinder fails or floods over this issue, considering that those non-oem repairs are known not to last very long.

Just making a point, as I would not recommend anyone to follow this information that reads this thread in the future.

[Nerv]

Engine abuse would be running it without doing any kind of repair, a new head is almost 10k cad, 150$ per hour x 16-20hours is $2400-$3000. That is $13,000 for a new head on component’s that already have 800,000+ miles. This industry does not pay enough to warrant a repair like that on a truck that already has worn internals. Thats why I said if i do decide that route I would in-frame the engine, saying that Im deliberately looking to abuse my engine/deleting my opinion really doesn’t sit well when I am trying to do my best. I would buy OEM sleeves if I could, quoted 6 hours for the cups, $180 for 6 cups, then see if its leaking? Whats wrong with that?

[Colter]

We'll cut to the facts. It is an option, I don't recommend it, it doesn't always work and it never works long term.

Most aftermarket tooling for injector cups requires the head to be remove, it is fairly simple to build attachments or build off of supplied tools to be able to leave to head on the engine, Paccar would be easier to build these tools. Regardless the cups need to be tapped and then pulled out, there is always a fair chance that metal shavings will be introduced into the cylinder and/or into the fuel return passage. Using grease, vacuum, etc. does not negate the risk completely at all. These engines already have an extremely temperamental fuel system. There is a fair amount of risk with said route.

It will take longer then 6 hours, you will have more parts needed then just cups. Injector O-rings and seals, gaskets, lines (some are deemed single use depending on location and if they need to come off. The wiring at 800k under the head will be very brittle, plastic tray and covers break sending bits everywhere mostly around the pushrod cavities. Jake wiring covers like to break and fall in as well With rocker assemblies removed it'll need a valve set, even with everything kept in the same location itll have moved.

I would double the labor and add 1k in parts to get you closer to the cost of trying this if its done as it should be. Unless the plan is to do the cups and let it sit overnight to be pressure testing after the retaining compound has set up, and then finishing is extra. A Cummins (the easiest injectors to remove) in say a long nose Pete with the tooling I've built so I can use a hydraulic ram to pull cups out, to do in 6 hours is flat out hustling. And again although doable is 100% not recommended.

Also certain brands of cups will have different properties, one popular brand is a hard material and does not flare properly when rolled which causes O-ring failure in a short time. You can save money now but you'll be here again.

Ultimately its your engine which ever way you go, these are just the facts with cups. When someone here says don't do it, it's usually because we've seen it go wrong and cost exponentially more in the end.

[Rawze]

(11-16-2023 )Nerv Wrote:  ... This industry does not pay enough to warrant a repair like that
...
I would buy OEM sleeves if I could
...

If you cannot afford to maintain your equipment properly.. and your not getting paid enough to do so, then it is your business strategy that is at fault here, and not 'the industry' as you have put it. People should not blame 'the industry' for their money problems. Trucking is a low-rent-rate, narrow profit margin industry, and has been for about 30+ years or more now.

It takes a good business sense, managing your moneys, and more importantly, managing your operating costs (fuel costs being #1) effectively + saving for those long term major repairs/equipment replacements. This is NOT 'the industries' fault if someone cannot learn how to make decent profits in today's modern trucking scene.

I.E.> YOU, YOURSELF are doing something wrong if you cannot even afford to keep the very equipment that is meant to make you your profits in tip-top shape. Any sort of duct tape and bailing wire approach to problems in trucking is a quick way to make people go broke at an even faster rate in the end. It has been seen time and again on here, and that was/is my point in the previous post(s). That is why I am so quick to push back against someone who is 'cheeping it out' to get by, instead of investing properly in their future.

Someone can choose to disagree all they want to, but my statements are not from someone who does not know any better, or are sitting on some kind of theoretical horse here when I say these harsh reality of things.

People forget too easily that I have truck(s) of my own ... and I haul the lowest rent s$it, cheapest freight out there. This, yet I can still afford to replace my equipment if needed + do proper repairs that will make me a profit instead of chasing broke, band-aided s$it over and over like a cat trying to catch its own tail. .. and NO, it is not because I have a forum and such. My truck makes me my moneys, and this place barely breaks even if I am lucky most of the time, so it is certainly NOT supplementing my trucking operations at all.

- It is well founded that there is no money or profit at the end of the day with most short term fixes that costs someone more down time and moneys in the long stretch. No room at all with that kind of thinking/strategy in this industry. I am quick to point it out because of this.

There are ways to make decent and good moneys in this industry so that a person can properly maintain and afford to do things 100% right, which always yields the highest long term profits.

.. So if it is not working out for someone, and they are broke all the time, unable to afford proper repairs, or that inframe that is due, .. then they need to figure out what they, themselves are doing wrong. This is NOT the industries fault.

I.E.> There is little to no room for chasing fools ideas and dickel-dime-it, save a dollar now repairs, so that it can cost you thousands later on + even more down time (= more lost revenue), with such narrow profit margins already in trucking. Everything has to be planned well, proper investment made instead of throwing moneys at problems in hopes that they go away.

I made this forum to help others with their trucks, and part of this is to identify and point this out when needed. Help people with their equipment long term, so that they can keep the moneys going int he right direction (your wallet), and not some half-baked, short term, wasting moneys only to be down again with the same (or bigger) problems to bite at them all over again.

So yeah.. I was quick to delete your previous post(s) there so that others do not take it as proper advice in the future.

I am also not here to make drama and argue with people. This place is not a free-for-all. That is what social medai is for, so you have been muted for now to prevent further spamming of those ideas onto the forum.

it is like you already mentioned...
If the engine has that many miles on it already (800k+) .., the head is obviously worn out like you say, then its time to inframe it + do any extra steps beyond the norm to extend the engine life above normal while you are at it. - Investing in its future correctly so that you can get a proper, guaranteed return on all the moneys spent over the next several years.. and not trying to nickel=-and-dime it to death, risking it all (hydra-lock, bent rod, piston thru the block, etc.) in the event that it does not work out, considering that age especially.

Also.. the vehicle now has 800k+ miles. Where is all the long term profits that have been saved/made up for such an event (such as an inframe) that is in fact inevitable!?. -- Have you owned it since new? .. or just purchased it recently?>... and if so, why did you not plan ahead of time, knowing it was already long in the tooth and could indeed need major work at any time at this point?. - Again.. this goes right back to managing your business, making proper strategies, planning for the future properly, and not trying to 'wing-it' on a hope and a prayer all the damn time.

- My point here in all of this extra ranting is that this seems to be yet another example that is seen over and over with people who own their own trucks, yours just happens to be an example of it is all. Too many people any more, trying to get by with repairs that are not likely to work out so well long term, is one of the most repeated mistakes seen around here.

Seems also that many ppl are not looking into the future properly with their trucking operations, hoping it will last a few more years ... never saving up for that major repair, never doing preventative stuffs properly, etc. yet still know its coming down the pipe, and then trying to string it along as long as possible due to poor financial situations, management/planning.

I am simply the messenger in all of this, the beer is talkin' at this point, but we know that everyone hates the messenger when it strikes home for them.

[Nerv]

Nerv:
Ok that makes more sense, you are saying that doing the cups in any situation doesn’t produce adequate results? I was thinking you were just talking about my issue, so in regards to replacement of the cylinder head, is it worth doing on this engine? What are some of the things i should get checked before replacing that would maybe not make it worth while?

This was my reply until i just realized you muted me. Not sure why when im trying to figure things out…

[Rawze]

(11-16-2023 )Nerv Wrote:  Nerv:
Ok that makes more sense, you are saying that doing the cups in any situation doesn’t produce adequate results? I was thinking you were just talking about my issue, so in regards to replacement of the cylinder head, is it worth doing on this engine? What are some of the things i should get checked before replacing that would maybe not make it worth while?

This was my reply until i just realized you muted me. Not sure why when im trying to figure things out…

In all reality, I really don't care that much about what you try.. I just don't want low trust factor repairs to be argued in favor of on the forurm vs. doing the right things that makes the most sense.

Coolant is NOT something however that you want to flood a cylinder with if the repair lets go. This especially at speed, where it can do a whole lot of irreparable, severe, and sudden damage. Coolant does not compress and does things like breaks the crank, bends connecting rods, and sends pistons thru the block kind of damage with little to no warning if the cup were to suddenly let go, and not just seep again. Just what I would consider any ways.

Add to this, that on most engines that I have seen this type of repair done, injector cups replacements is a 50/50 shot if they work/seal .. and even less odds if it holds for any real length of time. I think Colter's post above was pointing this out as well. - and at 800k miles, sounds to me like that same moneys can be spent towards a proper inframe + new head at this point instead of risking it on an already worn out head.

If it were low miles and barely out of warranty, rest of engine was in great shape, the head did NOT have to come off it, then the 50/50 shot?.. maybe, its a shot in the dark, maybe someone gets lucky, but only to try once,, and only if the head does not need to be removed to try it. Still it is risky tho.

 .. but even then, it would still be inframe city if the head did have to come off it.

If head comes off it = inframe it, especially at that mileage. The rule of thumb is anything past about 435k miles = a full inframe + brand new head is needed if head comes off, else in 3-4 years (usually less), all that moneys & effort is completely wasted.