My opinions on microblue ...

[Rawze]

This is a re-post from back in 2015 on the old forum. Someone asked me about that (microblu) crap so i thought I should put at least my own opinions back about the stuff. It brought up was during the discussion about that failed experiment and complete debacle of a "signature truck" that was supposed to get 8 mpg that it never could reach.

It was part of that K.R. xm-radio show back in the day and was a complete engine destroying disaster!. -- I used to listen to it and laugh my head off while busting 9+ mpg at the same speeds and weights, and shook my head at all the money they wasted on that coronado pissgerold pp built and tuned "sig" truck glider wannabe crap!.

(03-20-2015 )Waterloo Wrote:  Well, they had the internal bearings "microblued", seems that there is none left on any of the bearings, all washed away... They spent around ten grand to have this done. KR guaranteed them a 1 mpg increase in fuel economy... You know, I am not the sharpest tool in the shed, but I ain't stupid. They advertise this stuff, microblue, as a metal penetrant? It is sprayed on, how the hell does that penetrate a steel bearing or liner? More snake oil from the KR PP team. Ten F'n THOUSAND DOLLARS! My God, if I could bottle common sense!

Where the hell did KR find these rubes? I have listened to that asshole twice, that was about all I could handle. How could anyone listen to this guy for any amount of time and conclude... Never mind. ;)

{re-post from mar. 2015} ...
Here is what they claim,... Lets see if it holds any water...

According to MTI president Craig LeClaire, the resulting coating outperforms traditional friction-reducing coatings on several scores. "It's considerably more slippery than graphite, moly, or Teflon®," LeClaire says, citing the coefficient of friction as 0.30 when applied to surfaces of 15 RMS or better. And at less than one micron thick, MicroBlue doesn't cause any significant dimensional change in coated parts. Finally, this hardwearing coating holds up to point loads as high as 350,000 psi. "It won't chip, flake or peel like the other coatings," he says.

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You know its funny that he mentioned 15 RMS surfaces. This is the optimum roughness of least friction for dry metals for 'Least Amount of Friction" already, but ONLY on metal-to-metal surfaces that slide directly against each other, and NOT for 'Roller" type friction. ... and ... What does he mean by "Or Better?,... I haven't figured that one out, because "Better" meaning a LOWER RMS significantly increases wear as RMS drops, but "Better" meaning HIGHER RMS (rougher) has increases in wear but not nearly as bad as the 15-RMS optimum point.

BTW: 15 RMS surfaces are a grit rating of 240 (think 240-grit sand paper). Most "Roller" type bearings have a RMS of about 4 or so. This means his own statement above indicates that for most metal surfaces inside a Diesel engine, it has little to no effect. The piston rings are about the only place such surfaces are present, and actually 'Wear" against each other directly. Besides that, it is assuming BOTH surfaces are this rough,... and inside a diesel engine with chromium liners, that it NOT the case.

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* In the motorcycle competition world, there are typically gains of less than 1% when micro-bluing the piston rings, etc. on high-speed engines. This means that on a big diesel, the returns would be diminishingly smaller.

* In the NASCAR world, where it is used on pistons and rings, it is used in the same manner to the morotcycle world,... but it is also used for other components like the transmission, etc. but there has been NO SIGNIFICANT results indicating that components last any longer, or have less friction at the contact point(s) than non-treated components. It is used more for a 'Feel-Good' Safety measure than anything, to help ensure the components do not seize up as easily during failure conditions.

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350,000 PSI is just under the strength of the chromium steel used in piston liners, so it would be pointless to put it on Piston liners or any other chromium surface such as roller-bearings, etc.

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My opinion of the stuff/process,....

Pistons and rings (but definitely NOT the Liners) ,... ok, I see the point of trying it out,.... The rest of the motor,.. drive-line, or other parts like the transmission?,... NO GAIN WHATSOEVER!!! and a waste of time.

In fact, I would tend to think it would interfere with the normal process of polishing that is calculated into the design of roller-type bearings that normally extends their life, but that is just my own opinion now isn't it.

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These are just my personal thought on it,.. I used to think there was some validity to it (back when I wrote my book),... but since, have turned the other direction since it does not help on anything outside of the pistons and rings themselves, but even those, the gains would not be measurable, and that puts EVERYTHING they brag about for it right into the category of "Snake Oil"!.

It is always the claims of snake oil crap like this what waste people;'s time and money, and the results are always unmeasurable on a healthy engine or truck. That is its purpose,,.. to do sh%it nothing for you but make you feel better end. All those snake oil products are aimed directly at making you feel like you did something good while they suck money out of your wallet. Then later, when the results just aren't up to par,.. They come up with excuses instead of owning up to the fact that you got hosed!.

It is no different than those old s$itty shi#t-50 commercials they used to have on TV where they would pour the stuff in an engine, run it for a bit, then drain all the oil and run it with ZERO OIL IN THE ENGINE. -- Every single person who tested this found that that shi#t-50 actually ran FOR FAR LESS TIME than the one that had regular motor oil in it and then was drained.

Not to chaneg the subject, but here is one of those slc-50 tests done with a lawnmower engine...





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I used to hear that xm-radio guy who pretends to help truckers boasting eldlessly when he first endorsed the product. He would boast about how micro-blue engines would "Never Wear Out", and last 10x longer because the metal would "Never Touch Anything" ever again. It would essentially last forever according to him and the guy from micro-blu that he had on his show for 3 hours at a time...

What an Alligator crock of shi#t!

Where is the proof ANYWHERE inside that now destroyed engine they spent so much money building that failed in less than 300k miles? ... I see none.
( ref: http://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?t...72#pid1972 )

[Pete379]

Rawze can you give any Insite on WPC treatment? I know it's different the micro blue coating but I'm curious what your take is on it. If I remember correctly on the old site Dr. ISX had some posts where he spoke highly of the process being applied to engine internals like Pistons bearing cams basically everything but the liners.

[Brock]

I'm still on the fence about microblue. Funny you write this as I was just looking it up again last night!

I like the polishing process they do before the coating, no matter what... I see that being beneficial, especially in tranny and diffs. Everyone knows machining leaves micro rough surfaces so I see no issue in smoothing them out.

I wouldn't even pay no attention to the signature truck as every snake oil tech out there went into that thing, I remember reading the owners say that out of all the companies... the only one to take interest after was micro blue and that alone speaks volumes to me.

I still have yet to see or hear much about the coatings. There are a couple guys on ttr saying they get real good numbers, 1 guy has even gained mileage after every single component.... but everyone is quick to tear them apart.

I also don't know if this gains lasted.

I still have curiousity in this product, engine building companies are coming out with polish and coating options now so I still wonder if there's something to this.....

[mj9770]

I did the Micro Blue thing on an N-14 rebuild. Also trans and wheel bearings were done. It took a long time for that engine to quit using oil. Right around 100,000 km before oil consumption hit a gallon in 300 hours. With all those things “coated” you couldn’t tell much in fuel economy. But when truck was dyno’d at Cummins Edmonton it put 503hp on the ground out of a stock 525. The dyno tech said it was the strongest N-14 he had seen. So. If asked if I were to spend the money again? No. Never seen enough real world gains. If it’s true that it does what they say? Not sure. Could have been the low rolling resistance tires that put the power to the ground.

[spowers1]

Hello, new here but happen to run across this Microblu post. I have first hand experience with this as well. After long conversations with Craig, I decided to try this on a couple of pro series race engines I built for a customer. I'm a former engine development engineer for a major Japanese mfg. I have been building and calibrating engines for roughly 20 years, so some of the things I've seen at the OEM level to chase 1-2HP, made me curious about MB coatings.

The short version is, I noticed no benefit in durability or wear characteristics on components like piston skirts, cam journals, bearing surfaces, or camshafts. After a very short run time the coating was all but completely worn away. There was no measurable hp increase due to reduced friction claims, at least on my dyno (eddy current mainline currently). Granted, had it been on my multi-million dollar regenerative A/C AVL engine dyno at R&D, possibly I would have been able to measure .5hp levels. Anyhoo, just wanted to share my story since I ran across it.