What changed with CK-4 oil?

[Nilao]

I can't find any references as to what they did to the additive packages of the oil with this new formulation. Is adding gearlube still going to be able to make-up for what they removed? I'm still digging but info is scarce right now.

[Rawze]

(01-21-2017 )Nilao Wrote:  I can't find any references as to what they did to the additive packages of the oil with this new formulation. Is adding gearlube still going to be able to make-up for what they removed? I'm still digging but info is scarce right now.

Some of the bullsHT#T claims is that thinner oil will make better fuel mileage. -- I HAVE TRIED THIS--- I COULD NOT MEASURE THE DIFFERENCES WHATSOEVER BETWEEN 15-40 AND 5-30 AT ALL IN THE 15,000 MILES I HAD IT IN THERE!. -- IT IS BULLSH$T THAT MAKES ENGINES WEAR OUT QUICKER! I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU PUT IN THAT OIL WITH IT THAT THIN!

Required lower zinc levels and lower viscosity by Mr.Epa -- I swaer from the things I have read about it looks just like the bastards flat out want to shorten engine life to 435,000 miles only, so that older trucks with lenient emissions standards will not stay on the roads.

Everything I have read that is not brainwashing marketed bull#thit hype crap false fuel mileage and engine life increase claims that is.


it is Well known -- >

Thinner oil -- = shorter engine life on these 15-litre engines, I don't care what you put in that oil!.

Less zinc (below 1300ppm) in an ISX === shorter engine life! - PERIOD!. - Combine those 2 (the new CK-4 oil standard) -- That is what you got.

[Nilao]

So what's the answer? Off brands that still sport the CJ designations? All the major brands have discontinued the CJ line claiming CK is 100% backwards compatible. Speedco is in the process of the changeover an will only offer CK oils.

[hhow55]

(01-21-2017 )Nilao Wrote:  So what's the answer? Off brands that still sport the CJ designations? All the major brands have discontinued the CJ line claiming CK is 100% backwards compatible. Speedco is in the process of the changeover an will only offer CK oils.

The answer that i came up with, is in quickserve.cummins.com. Their is a list of oil's that are on the approved list from cummins, and yes i found one, actually several that is cj4 with the necessary additive's to provide long life for our motor's.

[Nilao]

heres a sample of an oil candidate. What do you guys think of it? It meets cummins specs


The results of the tests conducted on this sample meet the requirements of a SAE 15W-40 engine oil and are consistent with the requirements for an API CJ-4/CI-4 Plus/SM Service Classification.

PHYSICAL TESTS Standard/ranges-a 15W-40
TBN, mg KOH/g, (ASTM D2896) 7.39 to 9.75 8.25
Viscosity @ 100ºC, cSt, (ASTM D445) 12.5 to <16.3 14,9
Viscosity @ 40ºC, cSt, ASTM D445 105 to 129 109
Viscosity Index (ASTM D2270) 130 to 146 142
Viscosity @ -20ºC mPa s (cP) (ASTM D5293) 7,000 Max 5,597
ELEMENTAL ANALYSIS-b
Additives
Calcium 1,184 to 2,603 1,191
Magnesium 8 to 911 842
Phosphorus, ppm 877 to 1,312 1,053
Zinc, ppm 1,012 to 1,490 1,226
Molybdenum, ppm 0 to 117 44
Barium, ppm <1
Boron, ppm 1 to 679 2
Silicon, ppm-d 4 to 8 8
Potassium, ppm 2 to 5 1
Manganese, ppm <1 <1
Titanium, ppm <1 <1
Copper, ppm <1 <1
Sodium, ppm 1 to 6 7
Vanadium, ppm <1 <1
Contaminants
Silver, ppm 1 <1
Aluminum, ppm 1 to 2 3
Chromium, ppm <1 <1
Iron, ppm 1 to 2 <1
Nickel, ppm <1 <1
Lead, ppm <1 <1
Antimony, ppm <1 <1
Tin, ppm <1 <1
a- Standards, shown in black are established by API, SAE and others, ranges shown in green, represent the high and low data for the brands reported in the first two sample sets examined in 2013 .
b-Test Method for metal analysis is ASTM ASTM D5185.





Viscometrics
The viscometrics for the sample tested meet the required targets for a 15W-40.

[Nilao]

I found an interesting TSB from Ford MoCo



Ford Motor Company CK-4/FA-4 Ford Position Statement
Starting on December 1, 2016 the American Petroleum Institute (API) will begin licensing
two new diesel motor categories CK-4 and FA-4. API CK-4 is being released to replace
CJ-4. FA-4 is a low viscosity diesel oil released for diesel engines designed for a lower
viscosity oil.
API FA-4
Due to its low viscosity FA-4 should not be used in any Ford diesel vehicles at this time.
API CK-4
Ford will not be recommending the use of CK-4 motor oils in any Ford diesel engines,
new or old. Testing Ford has done on some CK-4 formulations have shown inadequate
wear protection compared to CJ-4 formulations developed and licensed before 2016.
Like many other diesel engine manufacturers, with their own internal OEM specification,
Ford will now be recommending oils that meet an OEM specification, Ford Material
Engineering Specification WSS-M2C171-F1. The customer should use an oil showing
that it meets this specification.
An oil showing CJ-4 in the API donut without showing CK-4 would be acceptable for
service even if not showing WSS-M2C171-F1. This oil would most likely be an older CJ-
4 formulation, developed and licensed prior to 2016. These oils could be around for
about a year after CK-4 licensing begins, December 1, 2016. Field experience and Ford
testing has shown that these older CJ-4 formulations provide acceptable 6.7L engine
protection.
To insure you protect your Ford diesel engine use an oil meeting Ford specification
WSS-M2C171-F1 like Motorcraft Super Duty Motor oil.

[hhow55]

Very bold from FORD. You think cummins would do the same.

[Brock]

Contrary to what rawze said, I did get noticeable gains when switching from 15w40 Dino to a 5w30 synthetic but maybe it's due to the heavy weights I haul. That being said, I still took out my cam so not worth the gains.

I know years ago a few guys up here played with the idea. One guy ran a straight 50w oil and never shut his truck off during cold months. Changed oil every 300 hours, all the other guys made fun of him but his motor far outlasted everyone else's.

[Nilao]

Sorry to hear about your cam. I guess that's why cummins says 10w30 oils are not recommended for DOHC engines.