Thick oil

[PeteMelb]

Hi names Peter, I’m an ex driver now mechanic in Oz I look after about 16 trucks and 13 trailers.

I’ve learn’t many things from watching the videos and reading these forums and I thank you for the chance to participate.

I like to do things myself but now I have a strange problem and I’m wondering if anyone else has seen or heard of this happening? and possibly able to help with some ideas.

But first some background.

One of the trucks I look after is a 2007 International Eagle 9100i with an EGR ISX engine, this is an old motor and has done over one Million Klm, its serviced every 20,000klm and runs excellently, it has a few oil leaks but for an old motor it runs clean and pulls well.

Due to the cost of another header tank, for the past few months we have been fighting to stop a coolant leak from the level sensor located in the plastic header tank mounted on the radiator.

The truck used a bit of oil between services but nothing I wouldn’t expect and it did use a lot of coolant due to the what I believed to be the header tank leak, so after deciding to just purchase another tank I replaced it last service.

The driver/s failed to report for sometime that they were still topping the coolant up everyday up to 4 litres even AFTER the new tank was fitted.

So I pressure tested the system and found 4 external leaks at various hose clamps but not nealy enough for 4 litres a day, I checked the EGR and pressure tested the EGR cooler (as per Rawze’s video) and it was dry and no visible leak, I checked the exhaust behind the turbo and it’s dry, and no leaks this truck tows a white fridge van everyday and has no DPF so if it was spitting thru the pipes the van would be black by now and as I said earlier this truck runs very clean, the van isn’t even sooted.

As the truck was almost due for a service I dropped the oil only to find what came out was a very thick very very black Goo the filter was also clogged with this very thick oil. I decided to take the rocker cover off and found that most of the rollers were just starting to loose there hardness so I’m fixing that.

We use 200 litre drums of Valvaline Oil and have done so for years without any problems, and Valvaline have come and collected a sample of the oil already but no answer until next week.

Now finally to the problem:

The truck needs to work and I’d prefer to start fixing whats needed, I believe the oil is contaminated with coolant that has evaporated the water from it but I can’t find out from where the coolant entered.

I have the sump off and the water system pressurised to 15psi and left it overnight and nothing, I have no problem replacing coolers or even liners if need be but could I be missing something simple??

I’m going to drop some bearing caps in the morning to see what they look like but I’d like to know exactly where this coolant is getting in from before i start pulling things apart.

PS: I apologise for the length of my first post but I understand the need for detail when trying to diagnose blind.

[hhow55]

(08-30-2017 )PeteMelb Wrote:  Hi names Peter, I’m an ex driver now mechanic in Oz I look after about 16 trucks and 13 trailers.

I’ve learn’t many things from watching the videos and reading these forums and I thank you for the chance to participate.

I like to do things myself but now I have a strange problem and I’m wondering if anyone else has seen or heard of this happening? and possibly able to help with some ideas.

But first some background.

One of the trucks I look after is a 2007 International Eagle 9100i with an EGR ISX engine, this is an old motor and has done over one Million Klm, its serviced every 20,000klm and runs excellently, it has a few oil leaks but for an old motor it runs clean and pulls well.

Due to the cost of another header tank, for the past few months we have been fighting to stop a coolant leak from the level sensor located in the plastic header tank mounted on the radiator.

The truck used a bit of oil between services but nothing I wouldn’t expect and it did use a lot of coolant due to the what I believed to be the header tank leak, so after deciding to just purchase another tank I replaced it last service.

The driver/s failed to report for sometime that they were still topping the coolant up everyday up to 4 litres even AFTER the new tank was fitted.

So I pressure tested the system and found 4 external leaks at various hose clamps but not nealy enough for 4 litres a day, I checked the EGR and pressure tested the EGR cooler (as per Rawze’s video) and it was dry and no visible leak, I checked the exhaust behind the turbo and it’s dry, and no leaks this truck tows a white fridge van everyday and has no DPF so if it was spitting thru the pipes the van would be black by now and as I said earlier this truck runs very clean, the van isn’t even sooted.

As the truck was almost due for a service I dropped the oil only to find what came out was a very thick very very black Goo the filter was also clogged with this very thick oil. I decided to take the rocker cover off and found that most of the rollers were just starting to loose there hardness so I’m fixing that.

We use 200 litre drums of Valvaline Oil and have done so for years without any problems, and Valvaline have come and collected a sample of the oil already but no answer until next week.

Now finally to the problem:

The truck needs to work and I’d prefer to start fixing whats needed, I believe the oil is contaminated with coolant that has evaporated the water from it but I can’t find out from where the coolant entered.

I have the sump off and the water system pressurised to 15psi and left it overnight and nothing, I have no problem replacing coolers or even liners if need be but could I be missing something simple??

I’m going to drop some bearing caps in the morning to see what they look like but I’d like to know exactly where this coolant is getting in from before i start pulling things apart.

PS: I apologise for the length of my first post but I understand the need for detail when trying to diagnose blind.

I'm no expert, but i would drop the oil pan, and pressure up coolant system, and see if you have coolant running down from your liner's.

[Nilao]

He says he had the sump(pan) off and tested to 15 psi. I would go up to 20 psi and check again. Also run the engine with the pressure tester in place and see if your pressure builds at idle as well as a snap test to see if pressure builds when you rev the engine. It's possible it is going out the overflow when the engine is running under load.

[PeteMelb]

Thanks for your replies guys,

Yes I have the sump off already and have the system still pressurised and still nothing.

Im pressurising the system through the plastic header tank and the cap releases at 15 psi but I'll take the tank out of the system and see if I can get the pressure up a bit more.

As I said I'm going to drop a couple of bearing caps off today to see what damage has been done down there.

[PeteMelb]

Found it!

I upped the pressure on the coolant system to 20psi as you suggested Nilao and today we found it, it looks like the liner on number one piston is leaking, so an inframe rebuild is now being planned, its a pity as I removed a big end cap and main bearing cap and I was amazed, there's not one bit of copper showing on either bearing shell.(i was going to upload some pictures but not sure if thats allowed or do able).

Thanks to those who offered advice I'm off to watch Rawze's video's on how to rebuild an ISX.

[Hammerhead]

(08-31-2017 )PeteMelb Wrote:  Found it!

I upped the pressure on the coolant system to 20psi as you suggested Nilao and today we found it, it looks like the liner on number one piston is leaking, so an inframe rebuild is now being planned, its a pity as I removed a big end cap and main bearing cap and I was amazed, there's not one bit of copper showing on either bearing shell.(i was going to upload some pictures but not sure if thats allowed or do able).

Thanks to those who offered advice I'm off to watch Rawze's video's on how to rebuild an ISX.

Uploading and sharing pictures is encouraged around here.
We are all here to learn from and with each other, so let me say "Thanks for updating your discovery". Too many would have just found the issue, fixed it and moved on never letting the rest of us learn from the opportunity.

So let me repay it by letting you know some of the things learned around here...
First, raise the liners to 0.014" protrusion. This has been discovered to be the issue solving liner height.
Second, when you get to the head torque stage, add this to the procedure...after torquing to 300 ft/lbs, DO NOT immediately do the "plus 90*". Wait 24hrs, re torque to 300 ft/lbs, then do the "plus 90*", the gurus around here have learned the head gasket will crush/settle overnight enough to lose approx 90-100 degrees of rotation to achieve the 300 again!

Good luck.

[PeteMelb]

Thank you Hammerhead, I will certainly take your advice on liner heights and the head torque steps.

[PeteMelb]

Just a follow up on the thick oil issue I had that might be interesting to some.

I’ve pulled all the Pistons but on removal damaged Number one piston cooler, so I removed that today to replace it and to pull the liner and found something interesting that may help explain why the liner Oring failed, as this is the first time this motor has been pulled down I can only assume this was set up wrong at the factory.



I’m now going through the process of pulling the rest of the liners and cleaning out every inch of the engine

The entire inside of the engine was caked in this thick black goo that won’t just wash off and has to be brushed off with a degreaser mixture, Ive added some pictures of before and after cleaning.









The Cams and rollers didn't survive.

[Rawze]

That is pretty nasty. I have seen that type of failure before from factory engines. Someone I know saw a rash at a fleet of several trucks with consecutive serial numbers with that same piston nozzle mis-alignment and melted pistons on 2350's last year. Cumins would not even warranty the engines even after all the evidence pointed clearly at them. Nozzles were being rubbed by the piston rods on I believe it was #4 cylinder on all of them.

Even so,,... what looks like is wrong with the sludge factor is a separate issue. --- NOT CHANGING OIL OFTEN ENOUGH!!! and possibly letting it go way too long with coolant seeping into it? ---- ENGINE ABUSE!!!

from this post...
http://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?t...617#pid617

Quote:Do the right thing,.. change your oil based on your fuel consumption instead of regular mileage intervals.

Here is what I would recommend to others based on what I have seen..

If your average fuel mileage every 10,000 miles is ...

less than 5 MG -- Change your oil every 8,000 miles or so.

5 - 6 MPG -- Change your oil every 10,000 - 12,000 miles or so.

6 - 7 MPG -- Change your oil every 12,000 - 15,000 miles or so.

7 - 8 MPG -- Change your oil every 15,000 - 18,000 miles or so.

8 - 9 MPG -- Change your oil every 18,000 - 22,000 miles or so.

above 9 MPG -- Change your oil every 22,000 - 28,000 miles or so.

These recommendations are based on more than just engine wear alone. They are based on getting the most engine life vs the cost of oil changes themselves, and the fact that soot and other deposits are going to keep building up in your engine more rapidly than you can flush them out. A bypass oil filter system can extend this, but not by the claims they are making. You would be good to get an extra 4,000 - 5,000 miles on your oil before having to change it anyways. That is my experience on it, and is what I tell others that ask about these types of systems, etc.