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Brock · 05-14-2018, **(Subject: Low oil pressure after shim )**

When I originally shimmed my oil pump, I didn't have good results but I thought maybe it was because I put my shim piece in before the spring so today I dropped my pan and moved the shim into the dog bone and no change

I'm running down the highway at 32psi at 1600 rpm with 200 degree oil. At dead idle I'm at 12psi.

Rods and mains are new. Oil pressure verified with a manual gauge, it out by a couple psi but low anyways for a shimmed pump. I've got the updated oil bypass valve although I did read someone on here before about there being a couple different ones so I don't know if maybe I've got the wrong one in there..... pretty sure that's that correct one.

Weak oil pump? Weak regulator? What do you guys think?

Brock · 05-14-2018, **(Subject: Low oil pressure after shim )**

http://rawze.com/forums/archive/index.ph...-1472.html

At one point I had very good oil pressure but it didn't last. Today I put smaller shim in and it didn't change the pressures at all.......

Maybe I'll swap that relief valve again for fun.

Nilao · 05-14-2018, **(Subject: Low oil pressure after shim )**

I'd have to go with either a weak pump or the block to pump gasket is spewing oil....

pearce trucking · 05-14-2018, **(Subject: Low oil pressure after shim )**

Look at quickserve and the oil pump section of the service manual. You can compare the length of your regulator spring with nominal. Also verify no beat in on the back of the regulator bore. My first guess is that your regulator spring is tired out. Even if it's at nominal length unsprung, it still is probably tired from years of heat cycles. I installed my new pump and put 2 dimes in the dogbone. Now I'm at 42 psi cold idle and 38psi hot going down the road. Up from mid 20s with old pump and no dimes. My old regulator spring was about .05 or .06 shorter than new one. No other major differences. I think they just wear out. Also there is a tool to compress the spring with and measure torque to compress. I don't have one, but my unscientific hands felt a bit more force to squeeze the new spring. Also, that regulator spring is directly responsible for how much pressure your pump delivers. It would be much less likely that any other part of your pump would be responsible.
The bypass valve would cause dirtier oil quicker, but wouldn't likely reduce pressure noticeably. Basically the oil pressure is set by a feedback loop to the regulator. When output pressure rises, the spring is compressed, thereby allowing the high pressure side to vent back to the inlet side. The more plugged the filter gets, the higher the pump output pressure is, and the more compressed the regulator spring will be, which will open a path for oil to return to the pump intake, lowering the output pressure, which relieves pressure on the regulator spring which increases pump output pressure, and so on. When the filter is plugged, the bypass valve opens to ensure oil flow to the motor. If you have the old style valve that leaks, it causes lower pump output pressure. The new bypass valve is more properly calibrated and also seals better when closed. There are 2 sizes of plug for the new bypass valve. 16.5 mm and 19mm. You should use the same one as you already have. However, measure the depth of the bore to be certain. I tried a 19 and crushed my new valve. The 16.5 was right for me. There is a bulletin that I mentioned before that goes over it in detail.

Brock · 05-14-2018, **(Subject: Low oil pressure after shim )**

(05-14-2018 )pearce trucking Wrote: Look at quickserve and the oil pump section of the service manual. You can compare the length of your regulator spring with nominal. Also verify no beat in on the back of the regulator bore. My first guess is that your regulator spring is tired out. Even if it's at nominal length unsprung, it still is probably tired from years of heat cycles. I installed my new pump and put 2 dimes in the dogbone. Now I'm at 42 psi cold idle and 38psi hot going down the road. Up from mid 20s with old pump and no dimes. My old regulator spring was about .05 or .06 shorter than new one. No other major differences. I think they just wear out. Also there is a tool to compress the spring with and measure torque to compress. I don't have one, but my unscientific hands felt a bit more force to squeeze the new spring. Also, that regulator spring is directly responsible for how much pressure your pump delivers. It would be much less likely that any other part of your pump would be responsible.
The bypass valve would cause dirtier oil quicker, but wouldn't likely reduce pressure noticeably. Basically the oil pressure is set by a feedback loop to the regulator. When output pressure rises, the spring is compressed, thereby allowing the high pressure side to vent back to the inlet side. The more plugged the filter gets, the higher the pump output pressure is, and the more compressed the regulator spring will be, which will open a path for oil to return to the pump intake, lowering the output pressure, which relieves pressure on the regulator spring which increases pump output pressure, and so on. When the filter is plugged, the bypass valve opens to ensure oil flow to the motor. If you have the old style valve that leaks, it causes lower pump output pressure. The new bypass valve is more properly calibrated and also seals better when closed. There are 2 sizes of plug for the new bypass valve. 16.5 mm and 19mm. You should use the same one as you already have. However, measure the depth of the bore to be certain. I tried a 19 and crushed my new valve. The 16.5 was right for me. There is a bulletin that I mentioned before that goes over it in detail.

I've got the updated pressure relief valve but know nothing about 16 or 19 MM.... I had to fight with Cummins to even get them to admit there was an update and my engine didn't show it was needed so who knows if at the end of it, maybe I have the wrong one.

From your other post describing it, it sounds to me like 870 engines had one and maybe 871 had the other? You mentioned build dates of 2006 needed the one I think?

I'll swap out the regulator spring and the pressure relief valve again here and see what happens, both are cheap and quick swaps.

pearce trucking · 05-14-2018, **(Subject: Low oil pressure after shim )**

(05-14-2018 )Brock Wrote:
(05-14-2018 )pearce trucking Wrote: Look at quickserve and the oil pump section of the service manual. You can compare the length of your regulator spring with nominal. Also verify no beat in on the back of the regulator bore. My first guess is that your regulator spring is tired out. Even if it's at nominal length unsprung, it still is probably tired from years of heat cycles. I installed my new pump and put 2 dimes in the dogbone. Now I'm at 42 psi cold idle and 38psi hot going down the road. Up from mid 20s with old pump and no dimes. My old regulator spring was about .05 or .06 shorter than new one. No other major differences. I think they just wear out. Also there is a tool to compress the spring with and measure torque to compress. I don't have one, but my unscientific hands felt a bit more force to squeeze the new spring. Also, that regulator spring is directly responsible for how much pressure your pump delivers. It would be much less likely that any other part of your pump would be responsible.
The bypass valve would cause dirtier oil quicker, but wouldn't likely reduce pressure noticeably. Basically the oil pressure is set by a feedback loop to the regulator. When output pressure rises, the spring is compressed, thereby allowing the high pressure side to vent back to the inlet side. The more plugged the filter gets, the higher the pump output pressure is, and the more compressed the regulator spring will be, which will open a path for oil to return to the pump intake, lowering the output pressure, which relieves pressure on the regulator spring which increases pump output pressure, and so on. When the filter is plugged, the bypass valve opens to ensure oil flow to the motor. If you have the old style valve that leaks, it causes lower pump output pressure. The new bypass valve is more properly calibrated and also seals better when closed. There are 2 sizes of plug for the new bypass valve. 16.5 mm and 19mm. You should use the same one as you already have. However, measure the depth of the bore to be certain. I tried a 19 and crushed my new valve. The 16.5 was right for me. There is a bulletin that I mentioned before that goes over it in detail.

I've got the updated pressure relief valve but know nothing about 16 or 19 MM.... I had to fight with Cummins to even get them to admit there was an update and my engine didn't show it was needed so who knows if at the end of it, maybe I have the wrong one.

From your other post describing it, it sounds to me like 870 engines had one and maybe 871 had the other? You mentioned build dates of 2006 needed the one I think?

I'll swap out the regulator spring and the pressure relief valve again here and see what happens, both are cheap and quick swaps.

You were able to buy a regulator spring? I only found a new oil pump, no spring available. I have an 871 and I believe you do also. My guess is you have 16.5 mm plug and that it is the right one to keep.

Brock · 05-15-2018, **(Subject: Low oil pressure after shim )**

No I didn't find one, just assumed I could. I'm questioning the possibility of it being the spring because when I went from a 3/4" shim down to a 1/2" shim, I should have seen a pressure change and I didn't. If the spring were weak, it would still fluctuate with the amount you shim it.

pearce trucking · 05-15-2018, **(Subject: Low oil pressure after shim )**

(05-15-2018 )Brock Wrote: No I didn't find one, just assumed I could. I'm questioning the possibility of it being the spring because when I went from a 3/4" shim down to a 1/2" shim, I should have seen a pressure change and I didn't. If the spring were weak, it would still fluctuate with the amount you shim it.

So your pressures are the same before and after? If you can find someone who has a spring compression tester (or buy one) you can get a definitive number on the strength of your spring. i believe the spring is 3.716 inches long. Assuming it was weak before shimming, the shimming has made it work harder in the interim, weakening it more. Absent new engine damage, there really should be a pressure difference between .5 and .75 shim.

Rawze · 05-15-2018, **(Subject: Low oil pressure after shim )**

* Clogged oil filter.

* bad oil pump.

* Spun bearing in head somewhere.

* Cracked/loose piston cooling nozzle.

* Bad o-ring in pick-up tube

* Oil pump mounting shimms not installed correctly.

* Bad or incorrectly installed bypass valve.

just some guesses. Have you pulled off the engine valve cover and cranked it up to see if oil is gushing around any cam bearings or valves anywhere?

* Maybe re-torque the piston cooling nozzles and ensure one of them is not loose/cracked?.

* inspect for a spun crank bearing in the bottom end since they have been replaced?.