Cummins problems HELP!!!

[ZeroNthedark]

You didn't mention what maintenance you've done so far. I have the same vintage motor as you and am finding that many issues are not always related. My first thoughts would be:

- Recent fuel filter change?
(I've been fighting water and crud in the tank/fuel for a couple weeks, worse than a usual plugged filter that results in very poor performance)

- Air filters?
(This is a big one to make my exhaust smoke, especially between shifts)

- Get that overhead done!
(There are several posts here, but it does require some special equipment)

http://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?t...1#pid19791

Hopefully you're towards the East coast so you can take advantage of the places mentioned here-
I've had the pleasure of being to both Gearheads and Mr. Haggs, both of them are fantastic.

[MandBtrucking]

I have changed fuel and air filters and change the oil every 10k miles sadly I am in Nebraska not too many Cummins guys around here

[Waterloo]

(01-19-2019 )MandBtrucking Wrote:  I have changed fuel and air filters and change the oil every 10k miles sadly I am in Nebraska not too many Cummins guys around here

Brother, I zip tied a rag on my coolant jug and headed to Atlanta to in frame my motor, from Detroit. Best decision I ever made. You are looking at a 15 to 16 hour drive, roughly 1000 miles... Get in the truck and go. This is your livelihood, this is not the time to start second guessing mechanics or yourself. There is a team in Griffin GA that can fix your truck CORRECTLY. Not half assed to where in a week buzzers and the CEL is going off, or worse, you blow a rod through the side of the block. If I had listened to Rawze when I first in framed my truck, I would be $38,000 ahead of the game, and probably still married. TWO in frames later... Call Mr Hagg and make an appointment, and then get in the truck and go. You do not want to take my journey. Ask anyone here.

[MandBtrucking]

Ok so I took it to the shop yesterday and about 5 hours later I got out of there I took it to a localish Cummins shop not a certified one by no means but I thought really long and hard about taking it to them for the simple fact that some guys love them some hate them but I told myself I was not going to let them do anything major because that is when everyone seems to have problems with them but I thought for sure they could tell me what I had going on.. well first off about 2 hours in to it they come and ask me how much money I had to spend on it smh.. Ok before I took it to them I did figure out it was in fact ( not deleted) so I unhooked the egr didn’t run it with a load on it so can’t tell if that helped or not but anyways they told me the bull gear??? ( I think that is what he called it the fuel pump that feeds the rail) was weak and I had cavitation in my fuel and i told them to replace it they was also attempted to hook my lift pump back up to the computer because it needs to (flash)? And it wasn’t able to do that being hooked into a toggle switch and that could be affecting it as well.. well they said the wire must be broke between it and the lift pump I told them that I could trace that down... my computer also just had one leg going to it they went ahead and hooked the other one up.. they said I need new actuators timing and injector all four to the tone of $2500 I told them I could do that myself. They also recommended their program to delete the egr in the ecm now they wanted $3500 for that now they really couldn’t tell me what all that would do other than better fuel mileage and no check engine light now I don’t really care about that. Now as he is telling me this once he brings the program up he tells me that my ecm is derated 25% for the egr then he said that they did a combustion test and 15 pumps later it showed green so he is guessing I have a liner dropping and their program is probably going to help this along so I should just rebuild it and started telling me about turbos and manifolds and I then informed him I was not rebuilding a motor that has 100k on overhaul and he said well it has to be drinking coolant because all the low water warnings saved in computer I laughed and said no I blew a hose the other day and it isn’t drinking coolant which it isn’t... I think they was just trying to get money out of me what are your guys ideas yea don’t get me wrong I think it needs actuators can I put them on one buy one like a couple weeks in between each other he told me no cause it makes the other one work that much harder I think he is full of shi#t on that deal... can I get away with cheaper actuators or should I go oem I realize oem is most always better but money is tight especially after the 1400$ bill yesterday what are your guys recommendations now I ran the truck today ran great once I got up to 200 degrees got 5 mpg I am sure it will get better than that beings half that tank of fuel it was running like crap

[Lonestar10]

on cummins OEM OEM OEM anything else tends to wind up just redoing it the right way way to soon after. i just did all 4 actuators was right around 2,000 and 1hr of my time.

unplug connector then basically 3 i beleive T25 torx bolts and the gaskets are reusable but i got new.

and as far as that shop, lift pump should have 0 todo with computer and gaurenteed nothing todo with being able to put a new program into it.


run far run fast and if you can leave the shop burning so they never screw over another driver again.


if the truck has a bunch of miles and it also sounds like previous owner wasnt great on maintenance if they didnt replace the Actuators on overhaul do them ASAP it might fix every problem you have it might not. before i replaced mine when i started the truck cold it would sit and rock back and forth and almost make you sea sick. 4 new actuators truck starts runs rough for about 5 seconds then it must switch over to a different fueling program or something but it does a quick skip in RPM and idles like a champ. and it starts like this weather its -15 or +40 degrees F

[tree98]

Wow that's a lot of information. On my 870 the electric lift pump wasn't hooked up at all for at least 2 weeks and the truck started and ran just fine. I think you have bigger fish to fry than that. I'm not sure what kind of gay test he did to come up with the dropped liner diagnosis but, you need to test that one yourself by dropping the oil pan, pressurize the cooling system to 20 lb. And let it sit over night, then check for antifreeze the next day.
I'm no master Cummins guy myself but if I we're you I wouldn't go back to that guy for anything.
Also not to pour salt in your wounds but in framing a motor that was just in framed not long ago is very common. Most guys do it wrong so it ends up not lasting. There are VERY specific things that have to be done to inframe one of these engines correctly. Look through this forum for the Waterloo inframe at Rawzes house last summer. Perfect example.

[MandBtrucking]

Well I totally agree with the whole having to rebuild it this early in the game I don’t know about the lift pump I haven’t quite figured out why it takes awhile for it to prime it’s up I am hoping it is because of the actuators being shot but the motor isn’t using any oil that I know of I got a couple of leaks to get fixed first

[Rawze]

(01-23-2019 )MandBtrucking Wrote:  ...
they told me the bull gear??? ( I think that is what he called it the fuel pump that feeds the rail) was weak and I had cavitation in my fuel and i told them to replace it
...

A. there is no "rail" on a CM870 (or CM871). it is an IFSM --> https://youtu.be/MWiSwgcwIoc

B. If the gear-pump has problems, it would simply be low fuel pressure. Easily seen in insite by monitoring fuel pressure. 265~ish to 300~ish is normal pressures. If you suspect air getting into the fuel system then pressurize the fuel tanks to 10 psi and let it sit for several hours/check for leaks.

C. The proper method to test the fuel system, injectors and actuators is to...
-- Adjust the overhead valves to ensure the correct crush prtessures are on the injectors.
-- Do a injector leak test ... https://youtu.be/Wu_WN8BA-LA
-- Then perform a cylinder cut-out tests, running the entire engine on only one cylinder at a time ... https://open.lbry.com/@rawze:d/isx-injec...e-cm2250:e
After that, if you suspect worn out actuators -- TAKE THEM APART AND INSPECT THEM>>> http://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?t...619#pid619

----- According to your post,.. I get the impression these guys you took your truck to are a complete bunch of poke-and-go-guess morons!. --- RUN LIKE HELL AWAY FORM THEM -- AS FAST AS YOU CAN!

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(01-23-2019 )MandBtrucking Wrote:  hook my lift pump back up to the computer because it needs to (flash)? And it wasn’t able to do that being hooked into a toggle switch and that could be affecting it as well..

A complete crock of horse-sh$it!. - Sure, you may have an active code in the ecm for the lift pump not being connected to it -- BUT IT HAS NOTHING WHATSOEVER AT ALL to do with re-flashing the ecm, or updating the software in the enigne. the ECM would simply still have the code after the update/changes. -OR- did they say the lift pump itself has software in it? -- that would be an even bnigger crock of sh$it... it is nothing more than an electric motor/pump. Either way <-- LIES and MORE LIES and -- > a complete bunch of fu#$ktard morons!. --- RUN LIKE HELL AWAY FORM THEM -- AS FAST AS YOU CAN!

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(01-23-2019 )MandBtrucking Wrote:  they said I need new actuators timing and injector all four to the tone of $2500

^^^ Did they do all the steps mentioned above to determine this? TELL THE YOU WANT PICS AND/OR MEASUREMENTS OF THE EXCESSIVE WEAR IN THE ACTUATORS BEFORE YOU PAY THEM $$$$$ FOR NEW ONES!... -- I HIGHLY DOUBT THEY EVEN CHECKED THEM! <--- AGAIN --> a complete bunch of morons!. --- RUN LIKE HELL AWAY FORM THEM -- AS FAST AS YOU CAN!


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(01-23-2019 )MandBtrucking Wrote:  They also recommended their program to delete the egr in the ecm now they wanted $3500 for that now they really couldn’t tell me what all that would do other than better fuel mileage and no check engine light now I don’t really care about that. Now as he is telling me this once he brings the program up he tells me that my ecm is derated 25% for the

-- Sounds like they are trying to sell you one of those redneck hack-job internet-rambo deletes that repeatedly destroys engines and turbo's + trying to "upsell" you on a non-vg turbo and after-market manifolds -- THOSE ARE THE WORST OF THE WORST STYLE OF COMPLETE BUTCHER-JOB DELETES OUT THERE BY FAR!!!--- HORRIBLE CRAP WITH REPEATING ENGINE FAILURES + ALL KINDS OF OTHER PROBLEMS -- GETTING DUPED INTO SH#IT LIKE THAT IS LIKE DRIVING DOWN THE WRONG ROAD IN THE WRONG NEIGHBORHOOD AT 3:AM AND REGRETTING IT GREATLY -- AGAIN -->> a complete bunch of fu#$ktard morons!. --- RUN LIKE HELL AWAY FORM THEM -- AS FAST AS YOU CAN!

If you want it de-mandated correctly without all the hack-job butchering, get with Mommaburt, Unilevers, or Mr.Hag.

(01-23-2019 )MandBtrucking Wrote:  tells me that my ecm is derated 25% for the egr then he said that they did a combustion test and 15 pumps later it showed green so he is guessing I have a liner dropping and their program is probably going to help this along

THERE IS NO COMPUTER SOFTWARE OR TEST THAT CAN DETECT LINER ISSUES !!!-- WHAT A CROCK OF COMPLETE HORSE-S$IT ---->>> Pressure test the coolant system to see if you get rapid buildup on a test drive or during heavy engine braking. -- AND/OR-- Drop the pan and pressurize to 20-psi and let it sit over night -- THAT IS THE ONLY WAY TO KNOW IF YOU HAVE LINER ISSUES!. -->> a complete bunch of fu#$ktard morons!. --- RUN LIKE HELL AWAY FORM THEM -- AS FAST AS YOU CAN!

(01-23-2019 )MandBtrucking Wrote:  he said well it has to be drinking coolant because all the low water warnings saved in computer I

TEST IT PROPERLY --- STOP GUESSING AT IT LIKE A DUM,BARSSE!!!! -- TAT IS WHAT I WOULD HAVE YELLED AT THEM WHILE I WAS DRIVING AWAY AS FAST AS I COULD!

(01-23-2019 )MandBtrucking Wrote:  I think they was just trying to get money out of me

yup!

(01-23-2019 )MandBtrucking Wrote:  he told me no cause it makes the other one work that much harder I think he is full of shi#t on that deal...

AGAIN--- WHAT A CROCK OF sh$it... pull them apart --- DO THE PROPER TESTS ON THEM !! check them for excess step wear as mentioned above.


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I can only hope maybe you mis-understood these guys or something,.. Surely there is not a shop out there THAT F#KING BAD~!!! -- But then again--- I know of several that are this bad or worse yet. -- It is a complete damn shame that truck owners and drivers who don;t know any better get raped up the arsse by clowns like this and shops that are this twisted and crooked out there in our industry. -- Makes my stomach hurt thinking about it.

[Lonestar10]

i know on 871 which should have same fuel system i couldnt get a truck i was looking at to start the lift pump took like 9 cycles to fill the secondary filter was barely pissing when we replaced. when it finaly got into a shop it wouldnt start because a checkvalve in that area was bad either not letting fuel from lift pump get to the 2nd filter or the fuel was being returned to tanks immediately. i know theres a check valve in there just not sure the exact failure method of it.


this could also be something to check we couldnt even get that truck to run giving it a puff of ether it would just spin over faster then keep cranking another factor was a completely plugged DOC/DPF