ISX 450 CM570 taking too long to start and using too much oil

[christiank77]

Hello all. I hope I find you well. I have a problem with my ISX 450 CM570 engine. I have been experiencing difficult starting. It would require more than 30 seconds cranking to start and of late had been consuming excess oil so I decided to get the mechanic to open the engine and check. We found two pistons for cylinders number 3 and 4 looking like picture attached.What could have caused the damage on the piston?Could it be related to the difficult starting?

[tree98]

I can't tell if that's just a lot of carbon buildup or if it's melted? What made you decide to remove the head to diagnose a hard start condition? Seems like there's gotta be more to the story.

[Mattman]

What does bottom of head look like for those two cylinders?

[christiank77]

(01-19-2021 )tree98 Wrote:  I can't tell if that's just a lot of carbon buildup or if it's melted? What made you decide to remove the head to diagnose a hard start condition? Seems like there's gotta be more to the story.

That is not carbon buildup but actual "melting" of the piston or some form of erosion.We decided to open the engine as last part of the process to find the cause of excessive oil consumption after checking other possibilities.

[christiank77]

(01-19-2021 )Mattman Wrote:  What does bottom of head look like for those two cylinders?

The bottom of the head for the two cylinders look as shown in the attached images.

[Rawze]

(01-19-2021 )christiank77 Wrote:  

(01-19-2021 )Mattman Wrote:  What does bottom of head look like for those two cylinders?

The bottom of the head for the two cylinders look as shown in the attached images.

looks like fuel impingement in the photos but hard to tell.

fuel impingement could be...

* bad,leaking injector

* excess boost problems or excess injection timing due to slipped cam or someone's bad custom programming.

* Wrong program was used in the engine (someone jumping cpl to raise the HP levels improperly).

* improper overhead valve adjustments.

-- for a 570, it also looks like signs of it running lean (excess boost, wrong program, bad custom program, etc.) on both those photos of the bottom of the head as well.

What do the liners look like and how much more wear is there on the passenger side of them vs the drivers side about 1/3 to mid-way down?

[christiank77]

(01-19-2021 )Rawze Wrote:  

(01-19-2021 )christiank77 Wrote:  

(01-19-2021 )Mattman Wrote:  What does bottom of head look like for those two cylinders?

The bottom of the head for the two cylinders look as shown in the attached images.

looks like fuel impingement in the photos but hard to tell.

fuel impingement could be...

* bad,leaking injector

* excess boost problems or excess injection timing due to slipped cam or someone's bad custom programming.

* Wrong program was used in the engine (someone jumping cpl to raise the HP levels improperly).

* improper overhead valve adjustments.

-- for a 570, it also looks like signs of it running lean (excess boost, wrong program, bad custom program, etc.) on both those photos of the bottom of the head as well.

What do the liners look like and how much more wear is there on the passenger side of them vs the drivers side about 1/3 to mid-way down?

Sorry for the late response.The liners have already been removed from the engine so I cannot tell the driver side and passenger side but attached are the photos of the liners.Hoping the picture quality is good enough (I could not do better).

[Rawze]

(01-21-2021 )christiank77 Wrote:  Sorry for the late response.The liners have already been removed from the engine so I cannot tell the driver side and passenger side but attached are the photos of the liners.Hoping the picture quality is good enough (I could not do better).

wow, that is a lot of wear all the way around on that thing. Almost looks washed out a bit like maybe coolant was getting into it?

There is also a lot of lateral thrust wear from what i can tell ... a bit more than usually seen...


Did that thing have any custom programming in it?

If so, then send over a copy of what is in the ecm and I will review it for ya.

Here is something for comparison .. this is a liner photo of a well cared for engine with a million miles on it. The thrust wear can be seen but it is not a whole lot much more than the rest.
   

and here is a liner that was severely abused by a bad (PeeDeeEyeI) delete. the injection timing was upwards of 15+ degrees at 750HP and high torque. Lateral thrust wear from excess boost and timing was so high that is split the liner.

[christiank77]

(01-21-2021 )Rawze Wrote:  

(01-21-2021 )christiank77 Wrote:  Sorry for the late response.The liners have already been removed from the engine so I cannot tell the driver side and passenger side but attached are the photos of the liners.Hoping the picture quality is good enough (I could not do better).

wow, that is a lot of wear all the way around on that thing. Almost looks washed out a bit like maybe coolant was getting into it?

There is also a lot of lateral thrust wear from what i can tell ... a bit more than usually seen...


Did that thing have any custom programming in it?

If so, then send over a copy of what is in the ecm and I will review it for ya.

Here is something for comparison .. this is a liner photo of a well cared for engine with a million miles on it. The thrust wear can be seen but it is not a whole lot much more than the rest.


and here is a liner that was severely abused by a bad (PeeDeeEyeI) delete. the injection timing was upwards of 15+ degrees at 750HP and high torque. Lateral thrust wear from excess boost and timing was so high that is split the liner.

Thanks for the liner pictures. Now I know what normal wear looks like and what damage can happen due to abuse. I would not know if my ECM has any custom programming but I will look for someone to do the download and post copy so that you can review it. Is it similar to downloading from a PLC?I work with PLCs. ECMs are totally new territory.