Needing Help ISX CM870 CPL8518

[Bakanka]

15/20k miles ago i have done replacing cams and rocker levers all oem with bottom end as well
When they were putting everything back together they stripped thread on injector side 4 bolts on cylinder 5/6, they did not noticed until i went for a test drive after driving for about 3 miles engine wasn’t working properly like there was a injector problem now they told me you gotta bad injectors. Hooked up to computer and it showed 5-6 injectors. They started disassembling and saw that the new mechanic have stripped them bolds, i was curries now what need a new head? Than i asked him that question, he said no i will fix it with a thread tapping inserts it will work just fine.

After they repaired it i drove it, everything was fine. Went making money with this truck and about 15k miles or little more yesterday it acted up the same way like injectors problem i safely parked at truck stop and opened valve cover and i saw that one bolts head was missing and 3 were loose and spinning in its place no way to tighten them.
I have changed the oil twice after that repair within 15-20 miles.

My question is whats my best option here that shop is taking all responsibility on them but i have to take truck to them. I am in NE have to go to OH. Help is on the way.

On this truck currently over 900k miles and it’s deleted turoos boost doesn’t goes over 38 pyro gauge i see doesn’t goes over 900f it only stared raising to 900 when this problem happed mostly up to 600.

[Rawze]

A lot to unpack there in your post. It sounds to me like you actually have 3 problems.


Problem #1 .. If that VG turbo is gone, has been removed, then hands down without any question or doubt,.. ITS A BAD, GARBAGE-CAN DELETE!!!. So That needs to be fixed ASAP too!

Problem #2 .. Sounds to me like you got some complete moron of a mechanic that did not use a proper damn torque wrench when you had the repairs done. - This means that the rest of the job is just as half arssed!... and those people are most likely completely damn clueless!. YES. you need a new head at this point for sure, from what you are describing .... BUT this leads to problem #3...

If that the engine has 800K + miles on it .. AND YOU REMOVE THAT HEAD .. then its inframe city + raising the liners etc.. etc. or all of what you do and moneys spent on only the head is completely wasted, and it will fail with a dropped liner or some other major issue in short order. .. SO...


Your next move is to find someone WHO CAN DO AN INFRAME CORRECTLY.. which is very hard to find these days. Someone who will DO IT TO THE LETTER, ACCORDING TO WHAT WE RECOMMEND ON THIS FORUM!, IN THIS POST: http://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?t...6#pid70606
... and that is damn near impossible to find these days, because there are too many shops who half-arsse everything any more... especially horrible, are the OEM shops.

and while all that is being done.. TO PUT BACK THAT DAMN VG TURBO!!.. and get that bad delete trash file out of that ecm!, so that you are not running around with the engine eating its out guts out, it leading to a shortened engine life due to excessive internal friction all the time.

How does that saying go?... you can lead the horse to water??? . but some people choose to suffer in self denial instead, just because they might have gotten away with trash enigne abuse like that for a little while>? .. DON'T BE THAT HORSE!!!.

If I owned it and was in thqat situation ...
I would inframe it.. PROPERLY as mentioned in the link above ... it due at this point and that is NOT the other shops problem. I would however make them foot the bill for the new head itself (a brand new one, not a reman) itself... as they screwed it up to begin with.

I would also put back the VG turbo / manifold, etc. on the engine side, get rid of the garbage program, and put a 100% certified to be clean and safe de-mandate program in it that was properly made for that exact engine ser# in it to protect that investment properly instead.

[Bengy88]

Yea I was slightly confused here. I couldn’t tell if you’re saying the turbos deleted or the trucks deleted and the boost doesn’t go over 38psi. Also what bolts are stripped? The rocker shaft bolts or the injector hold down bolts?

Either way if that shop was careless enough to put an obvious jiffy lube oil changer under a valve cover I would be skeptical as f*ck about them turning another bolt on my engine. Sounds like shi#t is about to be expensive either way you look at it.

[Rawze]

It being a CM870.. makes you wonder what wedges they used too for the overhead cams, since it seems that they were not to competent. Did they use the #4 and #6 wedges?/.. or the #6 and #6 wedges?.

ref: http://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?t...6#pid29926

[Bakanka]

(09-25-2023 )Rawze Wrote:  A lot to unpack there in your post. It sounds to me like you actually have 3 problems.


Problem #1 ..
Problem #2 ..
problem #3...

Thanks for replying me back.


I forgot to mention that turbo and manifold are oem not aftermarket garbage.

Besides that i have replaced everything on this truck oil coolers oil pump whole bottom end rods and mains water pump.
All sensors with crank sensors too plus bearings in the head where camshafts sits.
Front gears almost everything besides removing head and checking the liners height
The turbo i have on it two years old only egr was blocked.

[Bakanka]

(09-25-2023 )Rawze Wrote:  It being a CM870.. makes you wonder what wedges they used ...

Wedges I believe they used 4 and 6 thats whats on my valve cover i will have to double check with him, replacing the head to new oem is waste of money and time unless liners are raised to {new} specifications right?

So is there and other way to save that head without removing it from its place, like re taping with better thread taping materials?

I have the video when I opened valve cover I recorded but how can I upload it here so you can see it.

[Rawze]

(09-25-2023 )Bakanka Wrote:  

(09-25-2023 )Rawze Wrote:  It being a CM870.. makes you wonder what wedges they used ...

...
replacing the head to new oem is waste of money and time unless liners are raised to its specifications right?

So is there and other way to save that head without removing it from its place, like re taping with better thread taping materials?

I have the video when I opened valve cover I recorded but how can I upload it here so you can see it.

YES, replacing just the head on an 800k mile old engine block will ...

(A). disturb everything including the liners, etc. and it will not last very long after that. Does not matter how it was done.

and...

(B). Be a very large expense + downtime, that will be completely wasted, including having to replace the new head again in only 2-3 years at best, when it does let go, or the engine reaches a million miles+ which at this point, is right around the corner.

I.E.> a very BAD idea to only do the head and waste all that moneys and waste the head too for only a couple 3 years more of driving it even if you did get lucky.

So,.. if the head comes off it, then its inframe city + raising the liners to 0.015". and all the things mentioned in the link I posted above on the extra steps needed to make it last another million.
ref: http://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?t...6#pid70606

The engine is long in the tooth, and towards the end of its expected lifespan at this point any ways. It does not matter how much stuff external to this that you have done, all those things you replaced will help prevent only those component failures, and not the #1 thing that causes a CM 870 to need to be inframed any way. That is the liners themselves, and how long they go before eventually dancing in the block.. or wrist pins which when one fails, putting a huge hole in the engine block with absolutely zero warning, because some idiot did not inframe it a 1.0-1.1 mil miles like they should have.

The engine liners, wrist pins, rings, etc. will not last much past 1 mil or so, no matter how many other parts that you throw at them. This especially if the engine is worked moderately hard.

ALL ISX's do this, some sooner than others. It depends on ...

#1 cause = bad delete programming. This is in fact the most common issue of them all. 95% of all delete programs are VERY harmful, and are a silent killer of the isx, all while most truck owners will swear like fools it seems to run ok, until its far too late.

#2 cause = How they are driven. Too many clueless drivers/truck owners who are only lugging the engine below 1500 rpm all the damn time into an agonizing death everywhere they go, like a complete fool. Driving it below 1500rpm, and even worse, doing so when going up hills and/or when heavy, and under higher torque demands. That and, and the early death of the engine can be amplified greatly, if the truck rear ends are geared too tall for its application.

#3 cause = Some jerk-weed owner who does not understand that cranking up the torque all the way up to max 2050+ (or higher) cuts the engine life in half or less.

============

As far as saving the head with it still in place ... it would be questionable at best. If someone could manage to properly heli-coil the stripped out holes, and then get proper torque on all the components, then maybe it will last a while longer... but it is a gamble.

You said the injectors were ok, but how were they tested?. - It should have been done like this video shows, but few mechanics/shops even have the proper test plate, and are completely dam%mn cluleess!!!...
ref: http://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?t...8#pid67948

[Bakanka]

(09-25-2023 )Rawze Wrote:  

(09-25-2023 )Bakanka Wrote:  

(09-25-2023 )Rawze Wrote:  It being a CM870.. makes you wonder what wedges they used ...

...
replacing the head to new oem is waste of money and time unless liners are raised to its specifications right?

So is there and other way to save that head without removing it from its place, like re taping with better thread taping materials?

I have the video when I opened valve cover I recorded but how can I upload it here so you can see it.

YES, replacing just the head on an 800k mile old engine block will ...

(A). disturb everything including the liners, etc. and it will not last very long after that. Does not matter how it was done.

and...

(B). Be a very large expense + downtime, that will be completely wasted, including having to replace the new head again in only 2-3 years at best, when it does let go, or the engine reaches a million miles+ which at this point, is right around the corner.

I.E.> a very BAD idea to only do the head and waste all that moneys and waste the head too for only a couple 3 years more of driving it even if you did get lucky.

So,.. if the head comes off it, then its inframe city + raising the liners to 0.015". and all the things mentioned in the link I posted above on the extra steps needed to make it last another million.
ref: http://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?t...6#pid70606

The engine is long in the tooth, and towards the end of its expected lifespan at this point any ways. It does not matter how much stuff external to this that you have done, all those things you replaced will help prevent only those component failures, and not the #1 thing that causes a CM 870 to need to be inframed any way. That is the liners themselves, and how long they go before eventually dancing in the block.. or wrist pins which when one fails, putting a huge hole in the engine block with absolutely zero warning, because some idiot did not inframe it a 1.0-1.1 mil miles like they should have.

The engine liners, wrist pins, rings, etc. will not last much past 1 mil or so, no matter how many other parts that you throw at them. This especially if the engine is worked moderately hard.

ALL ISX's do this, some sooner than others. It depends on ...

#1 cause = bad delete programming. This is in fact the most common issue of them all. 95% of all delete programs are VERY harmful, and are a silent killer of the isx, all while most truck owners will swear like fools it seems to run ok, until its far too late.

#2 cause = How they are driven. Too many clueless drivers/truck owners who are only lugging the engine below 1500 rpm all the damn time into an agonizing death everywhere they go, like a complete fool. Driving it below 1500rpm, and even worse, doing so when going up hills and/or when heavy, and under higher torque demands. That and, and the early death of the engine can be amplified greatly, if the truck rear ends are geared too tall for its application.

#3 cause = Some jerk-weed owner who does not understand that cranking up the torque all the way up to max 2050+ (or higher) cuts the engine life in half or less.

============

As far as saving the head with it still in place ... it would be questionable at best. If someone could manage to properly heli-coil the stripped out holes, and then get proper torque on all the components, then maybe it will last a while longer... but it is a gamble.

You said the injectors were ok, but how were they tested?. - It should have been done like this video shows, but few mechanics/shops even have the proper test plate, and are completely dam%mn cluleess!!!...
ref: http://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?t...8#pid67948

Thank you for making everything clear i took notes and gonna share this info with that mechanic and also i will ask him to pull a copy of my trucks tune and i will try to send you for review.
When measuring that liner height can they be identical height side by side or they have to go in any order?

[Bakanka]

Also when getting new head what to look for since my CPL 8518 there should be a specific part number that supports my CPL.