ISX 450 Intermittent Mystery Derate |
09-18-2023, (Subject: ISX 450 Intermittent Mystery Derate ) Post: #1 | |||
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ISX 450 Intermittent Mystery Derate I'm sure this has been asked, but I'm new to the forum, so wanted to throw it out there. I appreciate everyone's expertise though. Thank you for what you all do and sharing your wealth of knowledge! Here's the story: I have a 2009 Pro Star ISX450 that I think I’ve been duped twice on now with garbage deletes and I’m not sure which direction to turn… I bought it and was told that because it was a “Canadian truck” (this is true) it didn’t have emissions (That was evidently a lie). I ran it for a few thousand miles without problems and then it gave us a shut down engine warning. It never did regen in that time, and the regen button seemed disabled. I took it to a shop who said it had been half deleted (no further explanation) and offered to do it correctly for 5k. They reflashed it, and since then the turbo oscillates when sitting at an idle and the pitch of the whistle varies. It also started to randomly die and have a power loss issue that I’ve described below. I took it back and they said the DPF didn’t get gutted, so they did that (don’t know why they didn’t double check this the first time). The dying stopped, but the power issue remained. Essentially it starts off strong and about 2 hours into the day it has no power. If it cools off for a while and then it does better, or if you put fresh fuel in it seems to come back to life immediately as well. The coolant temp never gets of normal range (210 ish). The poor power seems to happen even when it’s nearly full on fuel too. Newish fuel filters as well and it's within normal range on the filter site glass. It just won’t build boost or much over 1500 RPM when it acts up. When it runs, it runs great though… seems to build boost and will hit 2200 ish RPM. I cleaned the MAF and EGR sensor thing (pass through tube on the drivers side) and a probe next to that on the drivers side. While that definitely helped it run even better it still has this eventual power loss issue a couple hours into the day. I am also going to watch the sensor video Rawz has and do some more cleaning of those to see if anything changes and then can start replacing them if it makes a difference. It seems electronic in nature since it starts off good and then gets worse. Yesterday my driver said it ran good and then he down shifted for a hill and it pretty much went into this limp mode and sucked the rest of the trip home. No CEL's are on when it happens either. Any advice you have would be truly appreciated, the shop that did the work just says to keep running it has hard as we can because of carbon build up. I think we've tested their theory enough and I am ready to move on. I need a reliable truck back. After reading some things on this forum I am regretting the purchase and then the followup work that was done. I wish I had discovered this site sooner. Thanks in advance. | |||
09-18-2023, (Subject: ISX 450 Intermittent Mystery Derate ) Post: #2 | |||
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RE: ISX 450 Intermittent Mystery Derate #1... Canada is NOT exempt from emissions. It would take someone lying to you or some absolute idiot to say that canadian trucks come from the factory already deleted. - That is a flat-out LIE!. Bad delete programming is beyond out of control in that country though.. as there is little to no proper enforcing (policing) body to stop people from deleting every truck they can. ======== Also, more than 90%+ of all demandate programming that people do out there is horribly bad and harmful to the engine. Copy the program out of the ecm (using the Cal$Term software) and e-mail it to me for a proper review of what someone did.. good, bad, and/or downright ugly. What you are describing it an unstable engine operating mode control and not so much some mysterious derates. -= Improper engine operating mode control re-mapping (or none at all usually) is one of the most common issues with bad delete programming, and is absolutely harmful to that engine internally. And you driving it against this situation IS IN FACT causing progressive damage internally to the engine every time is feel weak, etc... and will eventually lead to a cracked piston, dropped liner, eaten up valve seats, possibly a destroyed turbocharger, or some other catastrophic, and very costly failure in its moderately near future. You should not even be driving it if it is as bad as you describe.. and yeah.. SOMEONE completely and UTTERLY RIPPED YOU OFF DEARLY if they charged you big $$$ like that and did not even do any mechanical work to it properly. THEY SAW YOU COMING AND HOW CLUELESS YOU WERE, AND TOTALLY TOOK YOU FOR ALL THEY COULD GET OUT OF YOU!!!. AND HAD TO ALSO HAVE BEEN JUST AS DAMN CLUELESS AS IT GETS TOO!!!. The programming part at best.. is only worth a few hundred bucks.. so Yeah.. you got taken for a ride!. - I hope, and would suggest real fast, that you never go back to those absolute crooks!. Your description is that of a typical bad del;ete, where the engine is perpetually stuck in rapid DPF/SCR warm-up operating mode .. choking the manifold with the turbo + making as much internal (harmful) friction as possible to try to heat up the emissions system as fast and hard as it can .. and getting stuck there, likely because the sensors are defunct, and the cans are hollowed out. What a damn shame!!. I PM'd you my number so that you can let me know some more history on it and get some advice, etc. User's Signature: ->: What I post is just my own thoughts and Opinions! --- I AM Full Of S__T!. | |||
09-18-2023, (Subject: ISX 450 Intermittent Mystery Derate ) Post: #3 | |||
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RE: ISX 450 Intermittent Mystery Derate The first thing you need to do before ANYTHING ELSE, is copy the program out of the ecm using c a l t e r m software and send it to Rawze for review. You likely have a bad demandate and that will cause a whole list of strange unsolvable problems. | |||
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09-18-2023, (Subject: ISX 450 Intermittent Mystery Derate ) Post: #4 | |||
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RE: ISX 450 Intermittent Mystery Derate After watching Rawzs' old video about sensors and carbon I am going to do some cleaning and go from there. Everything he describes is pretty spot on. Truck has 245k miles, just like he mentions as well... I'll update after doing some more cleaning. The IMAP sensor was caked when I cleaned that a couple weeks ago too. I have no problem replacing sensors if that's what needs to happen (and will just plan on it). I just wonder why it runs well and then intermittently goes to heck. Fuel economy has always sucked too... as he mentioned. I wish I had discovered this place sooner.... like before I purchased this thing! Thank you all. | |||
09-18-2023, (Subject: ISX 450 Intermittent Mystery Derate ) Post: #5 | |||
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RE: ISX 450 Intermittent Mystery Derate Thank you! Your responses came in as I was typing. I'll PM and see about that software too. Thanks! Guess I should have stuck with my old 3406B... lol. | |||
09-18-2023, (Subject: ISX 450 Intermittent Mystery Derate ) Post: #6 | |||
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RE: ISX 450 Intermittent Mystery Derate | |||
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09-18-2023, (Subject: ISX 450 Intermittent Mystery Derate ) Post: #7 | |||
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RE: ISX 450 Intermittent Mystery Derate Spoke with him on the phone. Very nice person, enjoyed the conversation. Yeah, he got taken pretty badly. He is getting an inline-6 adapter up and ordered, and everything to get himself straightened out. User's Signature: ->: What I post is just my own thoughts and Opinions! --- I AM Full Of S__T!. | |||
09-18-2023, (Subject: ISX 450 Intermittent Mystery Derate ) Post: #8 | |||
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RE: ISX 450 Intermittent Mystery Derate in the mean time.. here is a list of eye-opening links for ya to read, that goes right along with your story ... http://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?t...0#pid53900 User's Signature: ->: What I post is just my own thoughts and Opinions! --- I AM Full Of S__T!. | |||
10-19-2023, (Subject: ISX 450 Intermittent Mystery Derate ) Post: #9 | |||
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RE: ISX 450 Intermittent Mystery Derate Good morning sirs. After much ado I have a new laptop that I was able to install Calterm 3.17 on to, and have an Inline 6 data link that came with an Insite 8.7 disk. When I to go modules and try to select on Monarch as one tutorial suggested or "eagle red", nothing comes up following the BAC file in the notation below. I'm not certain where to go from here so that I can make a copy of the tune and send to Rawze for review. Just as a recap, it is a 2009 Pro-Star with a de-mandated 871 (450) with 240k miles. It has a random dying issue and intermittent power loss that appears to be resolved with fresh fuel, but does not necessarily seem to be related to tank level. It seems to happen less or not at all on cold days. I would bet money that the tune is junk, and maybe the ECM. I am going to try to "tap" test I found on the forum to check the ECM, but I would also imagine that the tune is bad and maybe something else as well... I also just found that I am getting a reoccurring fuel filter differential pressure code as well. Filters are new, but maybe a restriction or air leak or something that I need to track down. I'm sure I have a lot of digging to do, but my first hurdle is getting the programs to connect to the ECM to figure out if tuning is a problem. It never did the dying or random power loss thing until it was demandated- and the dying literally started the first time we drove it home from the guys shop. Of course... his magical tuner "works for Cummins", he's done 500+ over the last 100 years and has never had an issue... yadda yadda. Maybe it's all true and coincidentally my ECM crapped out, but I'd like to have the tune reviewed regardless. Thanks in advance. This forum is a wealth of knowledge and I am extremely grateful for all ya'lls help. | |||
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