Metal below gear train in oil pan 2012 ISX cm2250

[Ironwagons]

Good afternoon everyone,
Looking for some help identifying this piece of metal that was found in the pan. It was under the gear train in the front of shallow part of the oil pan along with some flakes. At first I thought it came from the gears in the gear train. Dropped the oil pan but cannot find any missing teeth from below looked up into the front cover with an endoscope while someone one barred the engine. Also pulled all the bolts out of the top of the gear cover put the endoscope down from the top still cannot find any teeth missing. I was hoping to verify prior to pulling radiator and all the components to get the cover off. The piece looks like a gear tooth but it have a curvature to it. Is there anyone that has seen a tooth or other piece that could be mistaken for a tooth that has come out of any other component in the area of the gear train in the front of the engine? It is a 2012 ISX 15 CM2250. Any help is deeply appreciated.       

[Ironwagons]

Pulled front cover off of engine and found all gears ok and unscathed. Also when barring the engine over sometimes we hear a snap coming from the area of the fuel pump. Is it possible that this piece came out of the fuel pump?
Also a noob question, when a high pressure pump fails where does the oil and debris flow into the oil pan my assumption is out of the front of the pump and down from the front cover?
I appreciate the knowledge and expertise in this forum! Any help is deeply appreciated.

[Colter]

It does go out the front, if you have no teeth missing off the pump gear then its probably a tappet roller out of the fuel pump, which means it should have had an engine light on for fuel pressure. The rollers are hollow and when the break then pieces are just the perfect size to fit through the drain hole in the front of the pump. They then get picked up by the gear and thrown around which could be your crunch, there may also be damage inside the structure housing as theres not much clearance there.

Remove your fuel pump head and take a look at you rollers/pump cam.

[Ironwagons]

(09-06-2024 )Colter Wrote:  It does go out the front, if you have no teeth missing off the pump gear then its probably a tappet roller out of the fuel pump, which means it should have had an engine light on for fuel pressure. The rollers are hollow and when the break then pieces are just the perfect size to fit through the drain hole in the front of the pump. They then get picked up by the gear and thrown around which could be your crunch, there may also be damage inside the structure housing as theres not much clearance there.

Remove your fuel pump head and take a look at you rollers/pump cam.

Gotcha, thank you so much for your reply and time…
I will remove the fuel pump head and will let you know what I find…
Thanks again

[Ironwagons]

(09-06-2024 )Colter Wrote:  It does go out the front, if you have no teeth missing off the pump gear then its probably a tappet roller out of the fuel pump, which means it should have had an engine light on for fuel pressure. The rollers are hollow and when the break then pieces are just the perfect size to fit through the drain hole in the front of the pump. They then get picked up by the gear and thrown around which could be your crunch, there may also be damage inside the structure housing as theres not much clearance there.

Remove your fuel pump head and take a look at you rollers/pump cam.

All the gears are in excellent shape can’t find any chips or marks.

Pulled the head off the pump and found the roller furthest from the gear failed and the front one obviously junk with a crack across the face. So that one was not far from coming apart.
Your help was much appreciated!

[tree98]

How bad is the damage to the pump components? Maybe post some pics. Usually when a pump goes you have to do a lot of flushing to get all the metal debris out. This type of failure is well known to destroy an engine beyond the point where it can even be rebuilt, so don't think you can just throw another pump on and head down the road.

[Ironwagons]

(09-07-2024 )tree98 Wrote:  How bad is the damage to the pump components? Maybe post some pics. Usually when a pump goes you have to do a lot of flushing to get all the metal debris out. This type of failure is well known to destroy an engine beyond the point where it can even be rebuilt, so don't think you can just throw another pump on and head down the road.

Yes I’m aware have already pulled the pan had flakes in there. Cut filter open found glitter in the mesh. removed the oil pump. Tomorrow going to remove oil cooler, oil temp thermostat, the bypass in the filter housing. Pulled valve cover to see what I could find sitting on top of the head. Looked clean there and when I had the cover off the gear train I couldn’t find metal sitting in there. Just a little stuck on the crank timing sensor. Pushed a small amount of air through the oil rifle return to push oil out of the hole that feeds oil to the fuel pump to push oil out didn’t see any glitter come out of that hole. What else should I check or do to make sure it is flushed?

I’ll be ordering new parts next week…Oil cooler etc.. Called to get quote today for new pump through a Freightliner dealer said pumps are on back order, imagine that.. Have not yet pulled main caps to check bearings either.

The suck situation of this is I purchased a fuel pump and installed so I would not have to deal with this shi#t, this pump has 123 miles on it and roughly 20 hrs of idle/ run time on it from info I pulled from insite when I hooked it up..

The picture is one of the rollers the other roller is the one that broke and found a large piece in the pan in the picture in the above thread. The roller that broke would not allow me to pull it out.    

[Ironwagons]

Also, does anyone have a recommendation of a quality parts dealer for these pumps if they are back ordered of a long period of time. Thank you all for your help!

[walterk]

I would very strongly recommend getting only genuine Cummins parts. Personally, i don't believe in such thing as "quality parts" unless they are OEM. Even then, one can run into some hiccups. Was the new pump OEM?
Good luck, and possibly, keep the forum updated with your progress for educational purposes.