Reversing a bad (non cummins) tune

[DVT873]

This is probably a dumb question. When a demandate program gets put in an ECM, what all happens? What needs to happen to reverse it? Is it just a matter of flashing a stock tune into it? Or is there a level of programming below the Features and Parameters we see with INSITE? A level that needs C--T--- to access and correct.

I assume there is a level below INSITE. Asking because I have a medium duty 13 letter shi#t-spreader that somebody demandated. The owner wants it put back to stock.

[APC]

restoring it back to stock should go something like this

- create a ECM template with INSITE.

- create a backup of the demandate program with CT (always have a backup regardless of if the program is good or bad)

- find the correct stock Program/ECM code that belongs to that specific engine serial #

- download the stock program from quickserve/INCAL DVDs and flash it into the ECM with CT/INSITE. (CT Preferred as loading programs into INSITE can be painful depending on which version)

- restore ECM template/settings to new stock program.

- restore VIN/ESN manually under Features and Parameters with INSITE. (ECM Template restore will not do this!)

If you cant figure it out, PM Me, I can help for a small fee.

Best of luck!

[DVT873]

APC, it is an international medium-duty DT engine. Not a Cummins. This post by Rawze sort of answers my question, I think. https://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=10576

My question is: when somebody "tunes" an engine, does just reflashing it return it to stock? Or did they f$%k with settings that a stock reflash won't correct? I have 2 trucks in my area with this engine that some "master mind" put delete tunes in. Both ran great for about 3 weeks, then went into what feels like a limp mode. No codes with a scanner or International software. One fleet wants it back to stock. I can reflash it back to stock, but will that be enough?

This particular ECM/ACM setup is twitchy. Bench reflash is best. ECM/ACM access sucks because there are several body-related hydraulic hoses in front of it.

I am trying to figure out the best way to go. Replacing the ECM is a possibility.

[mikkhh]

Reflash by tuning tools full ecm read?

Most likely somebody blanked most if not all fault codes. Not sure what ecm but good test is to pull ecm plugs and then crank engine. See how many fault codes you get compared to a good reference. On regular cars that is the first test I do when something has been tuned deman or whatever or at least suspect. If car gets only 7 fault codes that way or even less then it means troubleshooting and or repairs are going to be time consuming unless ecm is flashed to factory programming.

Reflash by dealer? Dealer scan tool reflash may not flash all areas (there are like bootloader area, changeable settings, program code, etc) and sometimes the "tuning" guys rewrite program code etc and other areas that should not be touched at all. Also "tuning" software quite commonly corrupts the file and also writes some no read or specific fimgerprimt all around the file and again can mess up the areas that must not be touched. It is not uncommon for tuning guys to lock ecm for further reprogrammimg attempts.

Are there even factory lenient overseas no acm factory conversions available for those engines? That would be the only way to fix these, but e g r will be kept, that can be lived with. Most likely cans are hollowed out and those trucks would need lots spent on new / used cans? Besides the fact that overhead adjustments have to be done, egr tuneup etc.

[Rawze]

(10-30-2026 )DVT873 Wrote:  ...
My question is: when somebody "tunes" an engine, does just reflashing it return it to stock?
...

(for red engine ecu's) ...

Putting the factory software (an incal file) back in it will completely wipe it and make it start over with fresh programming. No remnants 0of the old programming will remain.

However: If the work-order/vehicle specific template is backed up while the bad delete program is still in the ecm, then once ecu is factory-restored, if there is any bad data caught up in that template itself, it will sometimes can get transferred into the new program. - The only way to avoid this is to have a work order from BEFORE it was deleted, etc... and restore that.. or take the ecu to the stealers$it to have it done that way.

[DVT873]

In this case I am the stealers$it in that I have a parts and service contract that gives me the same access I had as a dealer. Int isn't like Cummins. A wo is not created when connecting. Once connected a template can be copied but that is rarely done. In this case not at all. I never touched this unit until this issue came up.
Short story is I can get a clean download directly from International. My concern is that there may be items like Mikkhh mentioned. Items that are not part of what gets reloaded on a factory flash.
Part of the problem is the R&R of this ECM is a major PIA due to add ons by the body builder. Access is really messed up. I may be overthinking this. I just found out that the rental replacement for this unit is running crazy money per day. One days rental will pay for a factory reman ECM. I think that is the next step. I may be overthinking this.

[mikkhh]

New or reman ECM may not be a bad idea. Keep in mind that failing ECM s are happening on almost all brand of engines, not only limited to red engines.

I have seen lots of ECM s failing on Paccars (again 3-5 years common failure point), Detroits (they usually start going bad around the five year mark), Deere engines ( not uncommon to see THREE YEAR OLD failed ECM), Scania (International S13 is actually Scania engine).

For some reason failed ECM s on Volvo s are very rare and used Volvo ecm is is like 1/3 of the price of scania ECM and there are lots to choose from. Scania has ECM directly bolted to engine without any vibration dampers. Injector failures on newer volvos are common, I know a truck that is two years old and has had ALL injectors replaced on it at 100 000 miles. Injector electrical faults are also common on 2022+ Paccar.

[Rawze]

(11-02-2026 )DVT873 Wrote:  In this case I am the stealers$it in that I have a parts and service contract that gives me the same access I had as a dealer. Int isn't like Cummins. A wo is not created when connecting. Once connected a template can be copied but that is rarely done. In this case not at all. I never touched this unit until this issue came up.
Short story is I can get a clean download directly from International. My concern is that there may be items like Mikkhh mentioned. Items that are not part of what gets reloaded on a factory flash.
Part of the problem is the R&R of this ECM is a major PIA due to add ons by the body builder. Access is really messed up. I may be overthinking this. I just found out that the rental replacement for this unit is running crazy money per day. One days rental will pay for a factory reman ECM. I think that is the next step. I may be overthinking this.

Personally, I think you mught be putting a bit too much faith in what Mikk said above. (assuming its a red engine ecu) ...

Cummins ecm's are not "hacked executable code" like car ecu's as a normal process... and hardware rom-booting one + incal file + a clean vehicle template is the way to ensure nothing remains.

Typically, the only exceptions are the consumer pick-up truck ecu's where the boot loader is hacked to allow bypassing of CRC, digital signatures, etc.. by third party tools to allow it to take a modified calibration program.

[DVT873]

Factory ECM new or Reman not available at this time. I have reflashed the guy's ECM with a factory file. He is going to install it and see what happens.