EGR Delete Info -- Educate yourself

[Rawze]

Thinking of doing an EGR Delete on your Big-Rig?,...Perhaps you should educate yourself on the subject first...

- If you are a big-rig truck owner who has a 2004 or newer truck, it is just a matter of time before you are going to start seeking some help outside of the OEM dealer network. This is because truck owners need to have reliable trucks that are not constantly complaining and shutting down due to emissions system problems. I understand this very well because I purchased a brand new truck in September of 2010, and the problems with it started showing up less than 6 months later. I now have a million miles on that truck (as of February, 2016), and it is finally time to start looking at what it is going to take to overhaul it, but it is NOT because of emissions systems problems. It is simply from age and road wear like any other truck would experience. During this million mile journey, I learned a lot about what it really takes to make money out here on the roads, keeping these systems running, and what damage EGR causes the engine. I also learned through helping other truck owners with their trucks, that these systems can be maintained instead of axed, but let us look at both sides of this coin in a serious way.


Identifying the Real Problem! ...

These systems are definitely poorly designed and can be improved. I know this all too well now, they can in fact be maintained very well just like they are. THE REAL PROBLEM! lies in the lack of proper support by the OEM engine and truck dealer networks. They are severely under-trained, and their eyes are mostly held closed. The bulk of them are required to follow recommended procedures by the engine/truck makers themselves, and the service software and tools that they use to solve these problems are severely limited.

This limited amount of information they rely on, almost always leads them to blame expensive components, costing truck owners big dollars. Even so, if it solved the problem long term, the high cost of repair could be justified, but more often than not, the truck ends up right back in a shop again with the same, or similar problems coming right back.


For Stopping the Real Problem in its tracks!! ... It is in the hands of the Truck Owner!

- The real problem with these high-maintenance emissions systems is well known by now. I have seen them put many O/O's (Owner Operators) completely out of business, and others struggle to survive this mess. I have seen where truck owners have spent upwards of $20,000 or $30,000 or more in a single year on repeating EGR systems failures. THIS IS NO WAY TO MAKE A PROFIT!. It has to stop if you are going to survive and make a decent living to feed your family by.

If your career is being an O/O, then you are faced with a few choices to combat this. These choices are...

* Keep wasting money and hoping for the best. -- If you keep taking your truck to the dealerships and OEM repair shops, you are simply going to loose a lot of money on these problems. It is no way to survive as an owner operator.

* Replacing/Buying a pre-RGR truck or glider kit. -- This is a problem in itself if you are looking at making a decent profit. If you live in the USA, there are already some states that are telling truck owners they cannot use these types of trucks. As well,.. these trucks are significantly less fuel efficient, and they are a lot less responsive in performance. Even with a lot of modifications, most can barely make 6 or 7 mpg. Engine replacement components are often hard to find, or are unreliable. For example, I can't count the number of truck owners that I have met with glider kits that have N14 engines in them that have repeating injector issues. The re-man components on old engines are just not as reliable as they should be after being re-manned several times over. Who knows how many times a re-man part has been re-worked before you purchased it.

* Performing an EGR Delete. -- ILLEGAL to do with the possibility of HEFTY FINES if you live in the USA or other countries that do not allow such things. If you do happen to however live in a country that allows it, the gains can be high, but the problem is getting it done correctly. The big name companies that do perform EGR deletes, are expensive and their ECM work is way under par. Most people who go this route, most often end up with turbocharger and other engine problems afterwards. They then get caught up in the cycle of being offered "stage-2", "Stage-3" or other similar EGR delete schemes that those same delete companies offer. Their terrible ECM programming will cause damage to the engine and turbocharger, and by now, they know it. They use this to their advantage to sell you things like after-market turbochargers and a lot of hardware modifications that are completely unnecessary if they had done it right to begin with. This leads you down a path that makes your wallet empty with an engine that has a severely shortened lifespan, excess internal friction, lower than normal fuel mileage gains, and the problems with the EGR system you had was nothing to the now repeating engine failures you are likely to face (more on this below).

===========================



Stop Wasting Money... FIX IT YOURSELF!

- Unfortunately, just about all of the service and repair facilities across the country, especially the ones that are 'Certified' or are 'Dealers', are the worst places to go to have DPF and EGR problems solved for reasons stated above. At first thought, one would think that it MUST be a complex problem,... Right?,... I mean,... If the shops that are professionally trained cannot fix this, then what chance does a typical truck owner have?... If your like most that I have met on here, you found this article because you are at this point,.... or very close to it. You are sick and tired of the down-time, sick of the wasted money in repairs that seem to get you nowhere, or worse yet,... you have spent huge sums of money on these failing systems only to have them fail again in short order...

- Most Owner-Operators who find this article and start reading it, are already somewhat convinced at this point that a delete is their only option, or the only solution to these repeating problems,.... Especially knowing that the so-called professionals can't even solve this,..... but what if I were to say that you could stop the bulk, if not ALL of your EGR and DPF problems all by yourself?,... Don't believe me?,... Let's put this to the test...

Almost Every single truck owner that I have met, who goes to professionally trained repair facilities with Emissions systems issues end up in another shop for the same or very similar problems in short order. On the other hand, about 90% of all the truck owners I have helped, who get brave and grab a wrench, taking matters into their own hands,... Actually solve the bulk of these same exact problems themselves! They almost always spend very little money in the process, and learn to keep after this in a way that keeps them rolling. I am not kidding here, or trying to convince you that there is some kind of voodoo magic cure out there,... but to simply let you know that there IS a solution,... It can be solved... Without spending thousands of dollars at shops all the time.

The question now is not What to do about it,.. but rather what are YOU going to do about it?...


Stopping the problems yourself...They CAN be solved!!!,... cheaply!

If you live in a country with strict laws and heavy fines for removing these EGR systems (like the USA/Canada), then I would recommend that you at least TRY to do the right thing. Learn how to repair and maintain these systems on your truck so that you are not wasting money at the repair shops. I strongly suggest truck owners educating themselves a bit, and grab a wrench. What you learn will definitely improve your situation by leaps and bounds. Here is the starting point to going down this road, I suggest you take it first before trying to get a delete done... Especially if it is not legal in the country you live in...

Start by understanding what EGR and DPF is,... I have written a nice article for truck owners a while back, so that they can understand the overall concept. it is a good starting point. Here is that article...

Understanding Your EGR and DPF as a Truck Owner...


Here is another great article on how to get started...
Fixing your EGR/DPF Problems ...

- Lastly but not least,... Doing an EGR DELETE IS ILLEGAL IN SEVERAL COUNTRIES INCLUDING THE USA AND CANADA!!! and there are certainly steep fines for doing so. This alone should make you at least consider fixing your truck instead of trying to remove this stuff. Don't say you weren't warned.

===========================




But What about Deletes?,...

The following information is speculation and is intended ONLY for people living in countries where it is NOT ILLEGAL to perform the things I am about to discuss!!!. If you live in an EPA Regulated country like the USA, you should make yourself aware that there are STEEP FINES for altering Emission systems on motor Vehicles!


===========================

Are you sure you want to do this?,...

- Most O/O's that I have spoken to, when asked, say that if these systems worked without so many problems, they wouldn't even consider removing them from their truck. It quickly becomes an endless money pit that both the engine makers and the OEM repair facilities take full advantage of, I see no end in sight for this. It has become a multi-billion dollar income for them and these failing systems. I can certainly see the O/O's point, but is this truly the way to go?

Personally, I think that if you are a truck owner who is faced with DPF, EGR, and/or SCR problems, I think you should take control of it and keep most of the problems at bay yourself, so that you can keep rolling and making money. The alternative though, is sometimes what many O/Os resort to because they have exhausted all resources. I have met many on here, who are faced directly with doing a delete or simply go out of business. -- For them,... I don't blame them for what they do, though I don't condone it.

If it is Illegal in some countries, Why the Info?,...

Because it is NOT illegal in all countries. It also sometimes becomes absolutely necessary to resort to such measures in the few circumstances where having these systems active and running is actually more harmful to the environment, or when the safety of others is involved.

Huuuh?,...Less Damaging?,... Life Threatening?,... C'mon!,...


Many third world countries buy used trucks and engines from the USA and have a legitimate need to remove these systems. Not all countries are fortunate enough to have low-sulfur diesel fuel. Aftertreatment systems are known for producing MORE harmful emissions than normal when the truck is running high-sulfur fuels. Some countries allow for the removal of these components because of this.

How can having EGR and a DPF system on an engine be life threatening? -- When that used engine ends up in a firetruck, or emergency use type vehicle, or when someones life depends on that truck to operate and/or run in all conditions. Just think about what would happen if the engine were to derate or shut down during an emergency. This is not likely to happen in the USA, precautions are hopefully taken, but in other countries, where engines and trucks are purchased used, or are sent from the states, removing these systems, and making the engine run its most efficient, most fuel saving, and most reliable condition, could mean the difference in saving lives at the end of the day.

Next, is the use of these engines in extreme environments. Northern Canada or Russia is one good example. Many of the roads to deliver things like fuel and other Hazardous Materials are in fact Ice Roads. Even with under-belly skirts, and exhaust jackets, very often, extreme cold and/or high altitudes prevents the after-treatment systems from functioning properly. Harmful emissions aside, if the engine were to derate and/or shut down due to the common problems these systems create, a truck full of fuel or other Hazardous Substance could get stuck on that ice and fall through in short order, creating the potential for an environmental catastrophe. This can also threaten lives as well, as a secondary effect. Think about that driver sitting in the cab of that truck, it is derating or shutting down because the -40C temps are preventing proper regen cycles. The engine shutting down can cause that person to freeze to death. -- These are very real things that can be prevented.

Lastly, most of these newer engines emissions systems are NOT designed well enough to operate on farms, quarries, and on local delivery/short trip types of uses for very long. Also, PTO (Power Train Operations) like unattended pumping etc. for say a bulk tank operation, causes severe problems with all these emissions systems too. Many of the vehicles used in these types of operations never see a highway, or never see steady operation enough for them to regen properly,.. and the engine fails repeatedly for emissions problems. I cannot count the number of people I have spoken to that have reported they buy a fleet of trucks for farm use, quarry use, etc. who have nothing but problems, and the manufacturers are of no help, even giving up on warranty repairs. This leaves the truck owner seeking alternatives to these problems very fast.

- Another reason to have this information available is for research purposes for those who are considering going down this road. People really need to know what they are getting into here. There is a lot more than meets the eye, and it is not as simple as hollowing out or removing some components, unplugging things, and/or re-programming the ECM.


The Dark Under-World of EGR Deletes!,...

What I am about to say is not said to try and convince people not to get a delete done, but to educate them on the very real things I have seen. It is also not the words of a nay-sayer,.. but the very realistic things I see time and time again. I see this so much, that I feel something has to be said, and truck owners seeking this type of work need to know this. Don't become their next victim!

It is simply a fact that the Majority of truck owners, especially ISX truck owners have BIGGER problems AFTER A DELETE!. Sometimes those problems are not apparent at first, and many truck owners convince themselves that all the money they just spent on having this done must have yielded positive results. I understand that, and see how people brag about how they went to big name company X to have it done. When confronted with the facts, and they are looking at the cracked head for the 3rd time, or that failed turbocharger yet again, they are so brainwashed by all the glamor and lies they have been fed, there is no convincing them that all that money they spent on getting it done was in fact them being taken advantage of, and being left with terrible results.

They are so convinced by all this, because they have convinced themselves that since they have a big shop, they are professional, etc. have lots of advertising, etc. or since they they are charging a lot more money than others do, the 'big-bucks' is what it takes to get it right.


It is very difficult to convince a typical truck owner who does not know any better. Heavy advertisement masks the fact that the big-name delete companies are absolutely terrible at ECM programming on class-8 truck engines. Many of those places have fancy websites, and fancy advertising and brochures too. Some of them are sponsored on TV and in radio ads. They have lots and lots of "testimonials" on their websites, and there is some REALLY BIG MONEY behind some of them!

The reality of what they do to O/O's trucks who are just trying to make their living is very different. Especially if that truck is expected to run in a stable condition, needs to be very fuel efficient, and/or needs to last a long time. Here is where the "terrible" part sets in...


- The engine makers are required to have some pretty substantial systems and software in place to prevent emissions tampering, and to hold emissions standards. This means that if you try to defeat these systems yourself by unplugging them, or fooling sensors with a false signal, the result will be some kind of negative consequence. On older EGR-only engines, like the CM870 for example, defeating the EGR system by unplugging it causes the engine to go into a silent derate. Boost pressure is lowered, and alternative emissions methods are used inside the ECM (Engine Control Module) by altering the injection, fueling, and air ratios to try to make up for the difference. The result is higher than normal turbocharger and exhaust temperatures, and a slight reduction in power. It is not unusual to see a CM870 with exhaust manifold temps upwards of 900 degrees+ due to the derates. This shortens the turbocharger lifespan. Although some people see a slight increase in fuel mileage, this extra heat also takes away a lot towards what can actually be achieved.

On the newer model engines, defeating these systems will typically result in check engine lights, severe power or torque derates, and/or the engine shutting down after a while. This leaves the truck owner seeking ECM tuner and delete companies to help solve their problems. What they don't know, is that they are about to turn down a dark alley where reality, and legality ends. This is a road where big dollar, big name companies are lurking, just waiting to take your money and promise you the world. It reminds me of the scene in back to the future, where Doc Brown says he traded for some plutonium with shotty pin-ball machine parts.

Most truck owners are not trained to recognize the signs of an engine that is poorly timed or is over-boosting all the time. -- Long term, these hidden problems can be devastating, and can quite often lead to repeating catastrophic failures of engine components, like the turbocharger, or the engine itself. Unfortunately, I have seen this way too many hundreds of times (yes, I said Hundreds of times), and there is no excuse for it at all. The proper information is lurking out there that can solve this, but no one is taking steps to do so. There is just too much profit in selling after-market components, and blaming the stock hardware instead of improving on what they do.


Reality Check!!!...

The black market of performing EGR Deletes is BIG MONEY!!!,... AND,... it is for the most part,... If you actually drive your truck afterwards Illegal. Because of this, there is a lot you should know besides just the legalities of it,...

- First, there is the fact that if you pay someone to do this kind of work to your truck, and you live in a country that has laws against it (like in the USA), you cannot sue them if something goes wrong!. It would be the same as being a drug addict, and trying to sue your drug dealer!. No one will win. Because of this,.. you have absolutely no protection whatsoever, and they always make it all professional-looking and sweet-potato nice while they are taking your money. - What you almost always end up with is an engine that you think is better at first, but this is a far cry from what is really happening inside your engine and its ECM.

Many of these "ECM Tuner" places CAN AND WILL RIP YOU OFF!!!, then blame you or your engine when something goes wrong!. There is no recourse for them if what they did, damages or destroys your truck or engine, and the engine and truck maker now a has a reason to deny all warranties for you, blaming it on the ECM work you had done. Because you cannot 'sue' them in return, this in itself IS one of the big problems. It means that ANYONE with a laptop and some illegal software can go around advertising they do ECM Tunes and/or deletes, do terrible work, and leave you with a broken truck or engine.

It is BIG MONEY, and many of these companies (think of the top 5 or so companies you can name off, they are reported to be the worst of the worst) that do this, have made millions off this. They have elaborate dealer networks, and have BIG advertising, nicely done brochures, and very well made big-name websites!

Those big-name companies are NOT there to help you,.. THEY ARE THERE TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF YOU AND YOUR TRUCK PROBLEMS more-so than they are there to actually help you solve anything. They are quick to tell you to remove these systems, and most of them really have no clue on how incredibly complex the inside of the ECM of a modern diesel engine really is. If they did, then they could program it correctly.

The truly bad delete companies will always offer "upgrades" to their deletes. They will tell you things like the factory turbocharger is crap,.. or prone to repeating failures, etc. and convince their customers that the proper way to do this stuff is to throw away the factory manifolds and components, and to have expensive after-market components put on. THIS IS BECAUSE they do not know how to make the factory components perform properly after all their engine hacking is done. It leaves the engine in a state where it will eat turbochargers, or other components, and when yours fails 2 or 3 times, you will fall victim to the rest of what they said to you. They planted that seed in your head, and in your ECM, knowing you would be back after it failed. They programmed it that way.

The worst of them will also jack up the logic so that the ECM unwittingly dumps a lot more fuel into the cylinders without it knowing it. The result is the ECM will then starts backing off the fuel it "thinks" is going in, and your fuel mileage readings in the dash go way up. These are some of the lies they have you play into!. Your first impression will always be "WoW",.. the fuel mileage in the dash went way up. Those companies and individuals that to bad programming always brag openly to their customers on how you will gain 2 or 3 mpg more! Some even going as far as plastering it all over their websites. This is very inviting to unsuspecting O/Os because if they are seeing 2 or 3, they are thinking to themselves,.. even if they get 1 mpg more, that would be great. .. I mean ... who does not want to get 1 more mpg?

What happens at the end of the quarter though, when your filing your IFTA report, or when you track your fuel mileage with your receipts, it will tell a very different story. Where is that 1, 2, or 3 mpg now eh?

Even a bad delete will usually gain a bit of something in fuel mileage. The act of lowering the exhaust restrictions yields a gain due to better exhaust flow, so do not try to convince yourself that your delete is good, just because you may have gained a bit of something from it. You may still be buying a new turbocharger or head in short order.

================

Most of the smaller guys that do deletes, usually start out by tweaking and/or doing ECM tunes on cars, then graduate to big-rigs, because there is so much more money in it. The problem with places like this, is that they learn their methods by stealing files and 'tunes' from other vehicles, then spreading bad or botched deletes, like a virus throughout the industry. The bulk of what these ECM tuner companies does, is actually shotty and/or simply bad work too, because they think to themselves, if the big companies are doing things this way, there must be something to it. Things that would be typical of someone who actually knows how to 'Tune' an ECM, like re-adjusting a turbo correctly, or setting up a new proper fuel-to-air ratio is clearly beyond them. All most of them know how to do is dump a file in, or use a patch to overwrite things, not knowing even much about what is inside the damn thing.

What if i need service work done?...

- Next is the fact that you will become very dependent upon them,... To put it bluntly,... They have you by the 'Ballz' afterwards!. -- What if your ECM dies?... A normal repair shop cannot fix your truck if something happens to its ECM, and a dealer or certified shop will refuse to touch it unless you spend thousands to undo all of it. . I can tell you that I have met more than a few truck owners that spent $5,000 - $8,000 dollars to have a delete performed, then a couple months later,... have to spend the money all over again! I have even met someone myself who got a delete done ($6,000 dollars), then their ECM died 3 days later. It left them stranded in the middle of the road. When they called the company that did the delete to get a new ECM, they HAD TO PAY FULL PRICE (another $8,000 dollars) to get another one. The tuning all over again plus the cost of the ECM. All this happened after they were promised they would stand behind their work.

- What happens when you need service work done on your truck?... Many of the 'certified' shops that see you have a delete will first blame all of your problems on the delete. There is a reason for this, because it is quite often in fact the case. Some, but not all repair shops will also take advantage of you, and/or threaten to 'turn you in' unless you pay extra or buy un-needed services.. You should probably know that ALL repair shops are required by law to fix and undo deletes in the USA or be faced with the same fines as the truck owner. -- This puts you in a bad spot if you need a repair... Who can you trust to help you fix it?...

- If you are NOT aware of this by now,... you should know that almost ALL of the software and many of the tools and files these guys use for doing these so called 'ECM Tunes' and deletes with, was obtained Illegally and through pirated means. For most, this means they got the stuff for free off dark places on the Internet or other websites. It is very easy for someone to be carrying a virus that may actually end up in your vehicle. I have seen this on ISX engines before, and it is not pretty.

It also makes you wonder WHY some of them charge $5,000+ to do half an hours worth of ECM 'copying' or flashing. I have seen what they do, and how they do it. Personally, I would not even call that ECM hacking, and certainly not 'Tuning'. Getting most of these guys to actually 'Tune' or adjust something complex is actually a joke. You are more likely to get elaborate excuses instead. Most are not nearly that smart though they would like you to think they are. The bulk of the guys that do deletes do not even know how the more important stuff like compression ratios vs. injection and timing cycles of these newer engines even works.

Don't believe me?... Call a few of these places up, ask for their so-called 'Engineer' and ask them a few questions about what they do to maintain stability in the engine, or what the turbocharger should be doing at a certain RPM or fueling rate. -- they will give you excuses instead of answers.

THESE ARE THE SAME CROOKS CHARGING YOU THE BIG BUCKS, AND SCREWING WITH YOUR LIVELYHOOD!!!! -- THEY SHOULD ABSOLUTELY KNOW THESE THINGS!!!!!!


- CAT Engines are the 'Bread and Butter' so to speak for a lot of these ECM Tune companies, because they are absolutely the easiest to do. 10 minutes worth of flashing to the ECM and it is done. The BIG BOY companies would have you believe that you need new heads, or special mods to the inside of the engine, but it is not true at all if you want is a reliable engine.

There are Flash files for CAT motors all over the Internet (if you know where to look), but most of them are of very poor quality. The smaller delete companies will use these files and jack your CAT engine up real nice for you for a price. What you get in the end is likely not going to be of good quality. Finding someone with very high-quality flash files for CAT is rare, and it seems the big name companies are getting worse more that they are getting better. There are even you-tube videos of CAT engines from these big name companies that are running and idling very badly, the truck owner or custom tuner bragging about it, saying it is all the extra power. Uhmm,. I am sorry, but the only piston driven engines that should idle that badly have very large over-sized crankshafts in them. If it is that bad with the stock cam, you have something very wrong!

- The newer Detroit engines are tricky to get right because very few people who do deletes understand them well. Sure, there are some 'Black Boxes' running around out there to fool the engine into thinking it is at high altitude all the time, and other such devices that disable the EGR, but the newer Detroit engines do not fair well when it comes to fuel mileage and efficiency after these devices are used. To date(feb-2016), even when re-flashing them with a delete file, they do not fair as well as they should. The reason, is that none of them are using the actual mapping software to reliably re-tune the turbo, injection and fueling maps to improve and re-map the engine's overall efficiency properly for the new exhaust piping etc. They use software like DDDL and DDDE (very limited stuff) and try to get away with hex-editing large blocks of data blindly to see what happens.

When it comes to a DD15, or other newer model Detroit engine, if you are lucky, you will see the same or slightly better fuel mileage, but most of the time you do not. In the end,... sure,... they may have deleted the EGR part, and cured some of its complaints, but I wouldn't expect to see any real gains by doing so, and you will certainly have a shorter engine life from improper programming (or no programming) to boot.


- ISX engines used to be,... and for most part, because of bad practices, are still considered the bastard child for these so called ECM Tuner guys. They are the most trashed up of all the engines out there by far. This is because they ARE the easiest to actually screw up. The high level software for editing them is easily obtained off the Internet, and once it is obtained,... NOTHING is hidden, or protected whatsoever.

With no restriction on what someone can do, the entire engine and all its systems are wide open to hacking and editing. This creates a lot of problems, because these engines are extremely complex, and I have only met one or two other individuals that truly understand them, and I can say with confidence, that the big name company 'tunes' are truly a horror story when you take a look inside to see what they have done.

What you need to know...

I DO NOT PERFORM EGR DELETES
I DO NOT PERFORM EGR DELETES
I DO NOT PERFORM EGR DELETES


BUT I DO NOT STOP OTHERS from obtaining the information and educating themselves on this subject. I only discuss them, and/or give limited advice to others that already have them under the assumption that they are not going to use their truck to violate any government or environmental laws afterwards. I also do NOT provide any software/hardware or information for doing them, and I DO NOT ALLOW trading of illegal software on this website!

-- I drive my truck for a living, ... I have much experience in this subject, by helping others in countries where EPA laws and EGR/DPF regulations are not required. There are companies in the states who do deletes, but almost ALL of them do it wrong for most engines. I have come across literally hundreds of individuals, and their trucks, that have had huge problems as a result.

My Rant and Opinion...

I go out of my way towards helping others keep these systems intact and running, so that a truck owner do NOT have to face doing something potentially illegal. I post tons of information on how to solve EGR problems in a straight forward manner, so that a delete can be avoided. I do know there are situations where such things may be necessary, AND I do know that many truck owners are curious in general towards this subject,.... This is WHY I wrote the article. It gives someone a glimpse into that mostly unspoken, but well known Under-World of Big Money and Bad Deletes. I cannot control what someone does who reads this, nor care, but now you have been warned that there are some pretty big crooks out there. -- Is this going to stop truck owners from doing this illegally?,...Heck-No,...but that is not in my control. I suppose, I could just keep this information a secret. But in other countries,... Where this type of tuning becomes very necessary, I think they would have much more difficult time of things, not knowing they can be taken so easily by flashy companies who do terrible work.

As well, those truck owners here in the states who HAVE removed these systems, taking that risk already, need to know whether or not their engine and or ECM has gotten hacked up by some half-wit axe shop. It is one thing to take a risk and delete the junk on your engine, but totally another to hire a company to do so for several thousands of dollars, and get a shotty product. In the end.

Someone else has posted some decent info about good vs bad deletes here on the forum for those who live in foreign countries where such things are legal. Here is that link...
http://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?t...01#pid5901

Personally,... I still think,...

The engine makers created this problem ... And continue to perpetuate it instead of fixing it!!!

The primary problem to ALL of this, and these newer EGR engines, is the fact that the emissions components are horribly designed and high maintenance. No regard whatsoever has been placed toward longevity within these systems, and that is where they fail. The engine makers are making hundreds of millions on just these systems alone after the sale, so I have my doubts about them ever really improving on them any time soon. It has also swamped the truck repair and service industry, making many customers wait weeks at a time just to get a truck into a shop for service. These things that they have forced us to use, costs everyone in the end because all these billions of dollars on extra costs ends up being added to all the things consumers buy.


Are these systems actually helping keep the air clean? ...

Everyone has their opinion on this. My personal view of it is that they help some, but it is the wrong approach to helping the environment overall. Everyone wants less carbon dioxide and less soot, and less NOX emissions, and theres nothing wrong with that, but I have seen people actually take their trucks from 6 mpg to 8 or 9 mpg through mostly better driving habits, combined with a bit of custom tuning. My own approach would be to simply use less fuel and improve the diesel engine technology where the highest fuel mileage with the least consumption would prevail over all. My own truck now has a million miles on it, and I ran some numbers with it the other day. Here is what it would look like if someone focused on fuel mileage savings above all else, and actually did get high numbers...

6 mpg to 8 mpg in a million miles is a savings of nearly 42,000 gallons of fuel ...

- Thats about 125,000 gallons of crude oil that did not have to be pumped out of the ground and processed, polluting the atmosphere.
- That is roughly 42,000 gallons that would not have to be put in a tanker ship that burns 1,000 gallons of diesel an hour across a vast ocean.
- Thats 42,000 gallons of fuel that would not have to be transfered, using pumping stations etc.
- Thats 42,000 gallons that wouldn't end up on a tanker headed for the truck stop.
- thats the weight of 42,000 gallons of fuel that did not get carried around by the truck burning it.

- Thats 42,000 gallons of fuel that did not need to be manufactured. It did not produce any NOx gas, carbon, soot, heat, or anything else harmful. I would think that this alone would far outweigh the tiny bit of reduction these emissions systems components are providing otherwise.

Instead of trying to choke an engine and control what comes from the tail pipe, by making it consume EVEN MORE fuel in an attempt to slightly reduce some harmful gases,.. WHY NOT simply DESIGN AND BUILD THEM TO USE LESS FUEL above all else, instead of trying to BURN M ORE FUEL THAN NECESSARY and trying to clean up what comes out of the tail pipe because of it? -- This, I think, would FAR OUTWEIGH those slight reductions all together!!!. -- Imagine if all trucks could save 42,000 gallons in a million miles. How many billions and billions and billions of gallons of fuel we could NOT HAVE TO MAKE, TRANSPORT, OR BURN AT ALL! -- I think that should be the actual goal. Consume a LOT LESS ENERGY AND FUEL above all else. Personally, I think that this would have the biggest overall impact towards reducing the changes that people say we are making to our planet in the end.


Just MY 2-cents and personal opinion on it,...Rawze