Waterless Coolant systems...Good or Bad?

[Rawze]

(02-25-2020 )E_83 Wrote:  Rawze,

This is excellent info and thank you for being so detailed.
I do have one question for you!
So what about going back to the zero pressure setup with cooper tubing? As you mentioned, your mind was at a split decision between the idea of having no pressure in the cooling system and the comment which that one mechanic made about possibly boiling water around the sleeves!
Would you still recommend having a self made zero pressure system?
If boiling water is a concern, what are your thoughts on having 60/40 red extended life coolant or even 70/30 in the northern colder states. With these ratios, there would be less water present to worry about and with our engine water pump constantly moving the coolant around, I'd like to think the water wouldn't get much of a chance to boil taking in consideration that the engine fan kicks in at 215F and eng. oil doesn't get passed 230F ever, as is the case on my w900 with isx 2250 heavy crude oil hauler in North Dakota.

Let me know your thoughts on this please. I greatly appreciate and respect all your input and help that you do for us out there.

Those are interesting ideas towards using a bit less water vs. the coolant ratio.

Not mixing it 50/50 though would present some inefficiencies with heat transfer. How much loss in heat transfer vs. the goals for reduced boiling / liner damage over time possibilities is unknown.

-- I still use a zero pressure system with the copper tubing to catch the overflow. I use the standard 50/50 (premixed) the red/water mix avail at all truck-stops. I just pour it in.

My truck now has roughly 390,000 miles on the new liners with it set up this way. So far it works just fine for me. What it is doing to the liners is unknown at this time, so that is why it is still an open ended subject, and why I would not yet just blindly recommend it to others unless they understood that long term, it still might cause harm.

[Rawze]

(02-25-2020 )Signature620 Wrote:  ...
Also try a 10psi cap instead of a 15psi if possible - Especially if you aren't running EGR.

You are aware that this lowers the overall boiling point of the coolant right?
and with egr gone, the liners are overall going to generally run a bit hotter.

I am not sure what this would help solve?

it would be interesting in what change in the boiling point temp would be vs the advantages of lowering the pressure a bit.

It is nowhere near the extreme I have taken mine to, but on mine, I get 8+,sometimes 9+ mpg and do not drive it hard at all, even when loaded heavy.

just some thoughts on it anyways.

[Magard]

This is a good animation of what cavitation actually is. It’s not boiling from temperature so much as people think. It’s boiling from vibration. More hp and torque amplifies this. Also watch close and you will see the piston pressing against the wall of the sleeve on the power stroke. Now imagine big torque and low rpm push on the side of that sleeve with a mid stop liner that doesn’t have enough clamping force from the head because Cummins sets liner height at .010 instead of Rawze recommended .014. That extra .04 is a lot of extra clamp force keeping that liner from dancing around on that shim. Once that liner starts dancing around it’s game over. Looses head gasket and doomed for perpetual rebuild every 30k or so until someone actually does the job right. Most shops are like there all at .010 but one is .09. It’s good. Build it. They don’t realize that .09 isn’t flat anymore and it won’t hold. It’s frustrating to watch people do this. Maybe this animation will help other situations on a different topic.
https://youtu.be/5_7PtvziB-Q
Proper coolant and radiator pressure fight against the bubbles forming and if they do the coolant additives protect the metal from the bubbles bursting and blasting the liner. So I would think that running a weaker coolant with no pressure would be like diluting our oil with mineral oil then running a lower oil pressure. Not a good idea

[navycuda]

I used to work on a mercedes OM444LA, a 21.9L v12 turbo diesel. The machine it was in specified CAT ELC as the coolant. I had to fix a leaking oil cooler on it at about the 3000hr mark and the machine was about 5 years old. The cast iron in the block, looked like it was brand new. I know 3000hrs isn't a very big sample, but was nice to see.

[tree98]

(02-25-2020 )Magard Wrote:  This is a good animation of what cavitation actually is. It’s not boiling from temperature so much as people think. It’s boiling from vibration. More hp and torque amplifies this. Also watch close and you will see the piston pressing against the wall of the sleeve on the power stroke. Now imagine big torque and low rpm push on the side of that sleeve with a mid stop liner that doesn’t have enough clamping force from the head because Cummins sets liner height at .010 instead of Rawze recommended .014. That extra .04 is a lot of extra clamp force keeping that liner from dancing around on that shim. Once that liner starts dancing around it’s game over. Looses head gasket and doomed for perpetual rebuild every 30k or so until someone actually does the job right. Most shops are like there all at .010 but one is .09. It’s good. Build it. They don’t realize that .09 isn’t flat anymore and it won’t hold. It’s frustrating to watch people do this. Maybe this animation will help other situations on a different topic.
https://youtu.be/5_7PtvziB-Q
Proper coolant and radiator pressure fight against the bubbles forming and if they do the coolant additives protect the metal from the bubbles bursting and blasting the liner. So I would think that running a weaker coolant with no pressure would be like diluting our oil with mineral oil then running a lower oil pressure. Not a good idea

I would love to know how someone ever figured this out??????? There's no way to ever see it happen with your own eyes.

[Bengy88]

(01-12-2023 )tree98 Wrote:  

(02-25-2020 )Magard Wrote:  This is a good animation of what cavitation actually is. It’s not boiling from temperature so much as people think. It’s boiling from vibration. More hp and torque amplifies this. Also watch close and you will see the piston pressing against the wall of the sleeve on the power stroke. Now imagine big torque and low rpm push on the side of that sleeve with a mid stop liner that doesn’t have enough clamping force from the head because Cummins sets liner height at .010 instead of Rawze recommended .014. That extra .04 is a lot of extra clamp force keeping that liner from dancing around on that shim. Once that liner starts dancing around it’s game over. Looses head gasket and doomed for perpetual rebuild every 30k or so until someone actually does the job right. Most shops are like there all at .010 but one is .09. It’s good. Build it. They don’t realize that .09 isn’t flat anymore and it won’t hold. It’s frustrating to watch people do this. Maybe this animation will help other situations on a different topic.
https://youtu.be/5_7PtvziB-Q
Proper coolant and radiator pressure fight against the bubbles forming and if they do the coolant additives protect the metal from the bubbles bursting and blasting the liner. So I would think that running a weaker coolant with no pressure would be like diluting our oil with mineral oil then running a lower oil pressure. Not a good idea

I would love to know how someone ever figured this out??????? There's no way to ever see it happen with your own eyes.

You seen the video of the worlds first acrylic engine? It’s actually pretty cool and you can see everything happening

[Smiling lemon]

I've been trying to figure out what has been gumming up my coolant system and I think the previous owner might have been running this stuff. Do you still remember anything about it? This stuff feels slimy but no grime, and non ferrous. When it is dried out it turns into a fine powder similar to flour.

[Nostalgic]

(07-28-2024 )Smiling lemon Wrote:  I've been trying to figure out what has been gumming up my coolant system and I think the previous owner might have been running this stuff. Do you still remember anything about it? This stuff feels slimy but no grime, and non ferrous. When it is dried out it turns into a fine powder similar to flour.

I think Rawze said his was almost like crayon was coated on everything. Drying to fine powder almost sounds like some type of stop leak.

[Rawze]

it was like a waxy crayon and it did NOT prevent rust at all.

wow, that cooler looks bad. It should never look that bad, nor that rusty.


-- and to think that some airplane engines use that crap by default ....
scary.