My Pete rebuild

[Nostalgic]

(07-15-2018 )pearce trucking Wrote:  Did you eat paint chips as a kid?
"Yeah, WHY?"

I'm starting mine and will be using the Monaco tool rawze shows in his videos. I'm a perfectionist too. I think your numbers are probably good enough. But if I had those same numbers, I'd probably be trying to get them exact too. See what others say though. I dunno for sure.
Oh btw, did I read correctly that you had .002 taken off the deck?

Yeah, .002 off the deck for the most part, evened out my protrusion readings. I know my numbers looked horrible, but I will say this, the machine shop I used does care about their work, despite the fact that they are, (from my perspective), high volume and tend to stick by the specs listed by manufacturers. It's a long story, but if they didn't care, they would have never taken the time for everyone involved (the owner, the sales, the machinist) all to devout well over an hour to me in the middle of the day to address my concerns and be so willing to go over every single detail and concern with me.

[Nostalgic]

(07-15-2018 )Rawze Wrote:  it will run there. With it at 0.014 - 0.015, your likely never to have issue with it.

Just make sure you let th head settle over-nigh after you get the bolts torqued to 300 -ft lbs, then torque again the next day,-- Than after that, do your 90-degree on the bolts for the final torque.

Still need to pick up a 3/4" torque wrench, but I'm a ways away from putting the head on anyway. My tractor with the forks can handle the block with the crank and pistons, but I'm not going to attempt any heavier. Backhoe could do it, but I'm not about to try swinging in a long block with my worn out antique lol. The head will have to go on after the block is in the truck, and I still need to derust, clean and paint the frame rails before that happens.

[Rawze]

(07-15-2018 )pearce trucking Wrote:  ...
I'm starting mine and will be using the Monaco tool rawze shows in his videos. I'm a perfectionist too. I think your numbers are probably good enough. But if I had those same numbers, I'd probably be trying to get them exact too. See what others say though. I dunno for sure.
Oh btw, did I read correctly that you had .002 taken off the deck?

How I get mine to high precision is with a very reliable and consistent mechanical depth gauge + lots of checking along the way. My counter-bore tool actually cuts an error of 0.0004" to one side when it is bolted and torqued evenly. What I do is cut progressively towards the target depth and back off the bolts on the side that cuts the deepest slightly + tighten the side that is cutting shy a bit. I keep doing this until I get it dead even before making the final cut. - I also only ever go 0.001" cuts with the tool and half that for the last 2 cuts to clean it up.

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Here is a nice tool for this job if someone wanted to go all out with it. ...
https://amzn.to/2J9uKNn

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Here is what I actually use though, simply because it has never failed me ...
https://amzn.to/2GS13xl
+ a base attachment ...
https://amzn.to/2LnDCS4

- If you go this way, when you attach the depth gauge adapter, loc-tite it + tighten it to maximum it can withstand, have it lapped in correctly. Never - ever remove it again.
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[Nostalgic]

https://www.mcmaster.com/#20365a15/=1dqk9pr

Here's a budget depth micrometer that would be a lot more accurate. You know, even between skilled machinists, the guy twisting the ratchet can affect readings up to .0005"

If I had the cutter, this is the only type of depth gauge I'd use for measuring the counterbores.

If you're Starrett loyal, It's a little more of course, but if you're like me and like tools to match.

https://www.mcmaster.com/#2051a42/=1dqk633

[Rawze]

(07-16-2018 )Nostalgic Wrote:  https://www.mcmaster.com/#20365a15/=1dqk9pr

Here's a budget depth micrometer that would be a lot more accurate. You know, even between skilled machinists, the guy twisting the ratchet can affect readings up to .0005"

If I had the cutter, this is the only type of depth gauge I'd use for measuring the counterbores.

If you're Starrett loyal, It's a little more of course, but if you're like me and like tools to match.

https://www.mcmaster.com/#2051a42/=1dqk633

More accurate than a genuine B&S? -- No, but the measurements required for liner protrusion, all will work. Like you say, it is the person taking the measurements that you have to worry about lol. If someone wants to start measuring a 4"+ depth to less than a 0.00025" accuracy then they need to start taking into account temperature and several other factors while taking their measurements. I have had to deal with measurements and corrections of less than 3 microns in the past on industrial machinery.

I remember once a long time ago helping someone figure out why the straight cuts they were making were ending up with a few micron radius. They blamed the machinery and said it was impossible to cut, but I showed them why all their cuts were on an arc after heating the metal by 10 degrees with a hair dryer.

Come to mention it, I once watched a 65+ foot long, 20+ foot diameter pipe (part of a large ball mill) grow by more than 0.065" to one side by mid day after the sun hit it while doing some precision machining out in the Nevada desert (at a gold mine). The job required a flange be cut all the way around on it to less than 0.002" accuracy. It took a couple days of measuring temp + time of day + growth to come up with a program on the CNC machine to follow it so an accurate cut could be made.

-- Pics of one of the end caps if memory serves me right (I took these pics a long time ago)..

[Nostalgic]

(07-16-2018 )Rawze Wrote:  More accurate than a genuine B&S?

I was just going off the listed specs - there's a reason dad kept his tools hidden from me.

(07-16-2018 )Rawze Wrote:  Like you say, it is the person taking the measurements that you have to worry about lol.

I worry about me all the time. I'm no machinist, and despite the label coming up a lot for some reason, I don't consider myself a perfectionist. I just try to do the best job I can with my abilities. Patience is not one of them, and as I've found, precision measuring (and body work) are both something I don't enjoy any more than absolutely necessary. Milling and woodwork is not relaxing at all to me, but I managed to take rough cut lumber and make all of the mouldings and trim for my house. Satisfying, yes, but if money was no object I'd have gladly bought the finished product and bitched about the quality later lol.

[Nostalgic]

Block is clean...again. Ran bore brushes up from each main and cooling jet, and from end to end. Can't find good plugs anywhere, so all ports are taped shut until crap starts getting put in.

What's the consensus on the piston cooling nozzles? New or reuse? I have them in my cummins shopping list, but? Are they known to break?

[Rawze]

Just an FYI for those people who are not familiar with this stuff ..

: The tolerance on the B&S depth gauge is 0.003mm / 3-microns / 0.000118". ~ roughly the same as the starrett that was listed and better than the Mitutoyo. But like I said, they would all work to measure liner height to a satisfactory level. - My own experience with getting Mitutoyo equipment re-certified every year (I used to have to have this done) was pretty poor on all but their most high end o their stuff. Many times they came back as bad and I had to replace them. B&S on the other hand (my favorite brand of the past) I never really had a problem with. Starrett is also pretty good. - Really though, it depends on what you are getting and the requirements of your application. All brands of precision measuring equipment typically have 2 markets they try to satisfy. A "competitive version" that is less accurate, will fail re-certification after a moderate amount of use, or "high precision" versions that are more expensive but easily re-certifiable after a moderate amount of use. A sort-of "you get what you pay for" kind of internal clockworks in them.

[Rawze]

(07-16-2018 )Nostalgic Wrote:  ...
What's the consensus on the piston cooling nozzles? New or reuse? I have them in my cummins shopping list, but? Are they known to break?

I never re-use them out of fear that one might have gotten bumped a bit during removal or high age and possible deterioration. Any mis-alignment of the tube and it is good-bye piston after a while.