Coolant in oil (Oil analysis)

[Makmak]

Had an oil sample taken and they found coolant in oil. I have provided the report. Can someone shed some light as to how the coolant might be getting into the oil and the possible severity of this. This is a 2010 Volvo 780 with a CM871 with a second motor with roughly 600K. It is a truck I have been looking to purchase, Well, before the sample was taken of course.[/size][/php]

Thanks for any help given

[Hammerhead]

List of possible coolant intrusion points of oil in an ISX CM871.
no particular order, or complete
EGR cooler
Oil cooler
Liners shifting/rocking/dropping
Head gasket
Cracked head
O-rings on liners
Cracked block
VGT turbo
Water pump
Air compressor

Do a coolant system pressure test and investigate from there. Pressurize to 20psi, overnight if you can't find it immediately.

Most likely culperit is EGR cooler. Pressurize cooling system and remove the crossover pipe at the rear and use a mirror to verify. If not, further investigation will be required.

As far as severity, that's determined what the issue is and the coolant consumption rate. Coolant is abraisive, not a lubricant. It also attracts soot, making it even more abraisive. Depending on the issue, this may require an inframe in short order to being able to limp it for several months to save your pesos to do so if it's not a simple components replacement.

[Makmak]

A coolant system pressure test meaning drop the oil pan and look for leakage?

[Hammerhead]

(05-26-2017 )Makmak Wrote:  A coolant system pressure test meaning drop the oil pan and look for leakage?

If you check and eliminate the EGR cooler as the source, then yes you may have to drop the pan. I'd check the easy stuff (EGR cooler) first.
Drop the pan, and the block stifner plate and pressurize the cooling system, probably overnight to find or eliminate. If in the morning you have coolant leaking down the inside of the liner wall (where the piston is), you most likely have a blown head gasket or a cracked head. If it's leaking down the outside of the liner wall, you have liner, o-ring, or block issues.
If this still does not expose the issue, then it may be one of the more rare and harder to find options, ie; compressor, turbo, or oil cooler.
You know it's in the oil because of the sample, so I'd check in this order myself
1)EGR cooler
2)drop oil pan and check liners (head gasket, cracked head, liner issue)
3)oil cooler (I don't believe you can verify this without removal)
4)turbo (only because you have to remove to check the oil cooler)
5)air compressor (I'd suggest this is more likely than the turbo)
Note, this is in order of simplicity to difficulty

[Makmak]

I appreciate your help Hammerhead! I am going to keep posting the progress as we move forward. LTFB (let the fun begin) oh by the way, the oil sample analysis is PPM. I attached as PDF.

[Hammerhead]

(05-26-2017 )Makmak Wrote:  I appreciate your help Hammerhead! I am going to keep posting the progress as we move forward. LTFB (let the fun begin) oh by the way, the oil sample analysis is PPM. I attached as PDF.

That's what we like to see around here, this way we can all learn from it.

I'm somewhat confused, you stated in the OP

Makmak Wrote:It is a truck I have been looking to purchase, Well, before the sample was taken of course.

Have you purchased this truck? Or is this part of your investigation of the unit and part of the deciding factor of what to offer?
It has no bearing on the conversation, just my curiosity.

[jorden486]

Usually oil cooler issues are oil in the coolant because the oil runs at higher PSI so it pushes oil in the cooling system while the truck is running and some coolant will leak back into the oil system when the truck is shut off.

[Makmak]

(05-27-2017 )Hammerhead Wrote:  

(05-26-2017 )Makmak Wrote:  I appreciate your help Hammerhead! I am going to keep posting the progress as we move forward. LTFB (let the fun begin) oh by the way, the oil sample analysis is PPM. I attached as PDF.

That's what we like to see around here, this way we can all learn from it.

I'm somewhat confused, you stated in the OP

Makmak Wrote:It is a truck I have been looking to purchase, Well, before the sample was taken of course.

Have you purchased this truck? Or is this part of your investigation of the unit and part of the deciding factor of what to offer?
It has no bearing on the conversation, just my curiosity.

I had made a decision to purchase this truck for a said price as long as the oil sample came back good or good as can be as the truck has 600k on second motor. Now, I am concerned. The owner is going to fix repair replace whatever it takes to solve this coolant in oil issue. So I am trying to be proactive and find out myself what the issue can be. The truck is at a shop and they are trying to troubleshoot it.

[Hammerhead]

(05-27-2017 )jorden486 Wrote:  Usually oil cooler issues are oil in the coolant because the oil runs at higher PSI so it pushes oil in the cooling system while the truck is running and some coolant will leak back into the oil system when the truck is shut off.

Agreed.
However, occaisionally things don't always play out in a linear manner.
I had a liquid tranny cooler fail several years ago sending oil into the coolant. Everybody said it was the engine oil cooler that failed. There was no way a transmission cooler would create enough oil pressure to overcome the cooling system pressure to push tranny oil into the coolant, never mind the fact that it also has to overcome gravity.
The color of the oil emulsion was wrong, and I just couldn't put that suspicion out of my head. I sent oil emulsion samples as well as oil samples from the; engine, tranny, & APU for analysis and elimination. The emulsion from the surge tank matched the tranny oil additives only. The tranny oil contamination was so slight, that had I not have sent in the emulsion sample and clearly explained what I was looking for, they may not have found it. They doubled the tranny oil sample for verification.
All this means is that Most of the time this is the case, however never presume that sometimes things just may not be what they appear.

Based on all of this, I would actually rate the air compressor as a higher likely source than the oil cooler. However I have never heard of any way to test the compressor short of replacement, which was why I indicated the oil cooler ahead of the compressor. (Unless the air drier dessicant is obviously contaminated with coolant) The oil cooler can be pressure tested when removed for confirmation or elimination.

Personally, I suspect EGR cooler. They seem to have the highest failure rate.