Wait...my CAC is how much?!?

[Rawze]

(10-12-2017 )dhirocz Wrote:  ...
How many tubes compared to OEM?
Thermal efficiency compared to OEM?
Pressure drop across the core vs OEM?
How were these tests conducted and to what standard were they compared?

...
The man had no answer. An engineer at that. I can't fathom how you wouldn't know that with
...

Sad part is that I asked those same questions 2 years ago before I knew anything about their products when they were spam e-mailing me to push their units on my forum,....

I got no response other than "We'll get back with you". All i could think to myself was,.. How can they design a commercial product and not know or test the very performance characteristics that count the most?. - i mean think about it,.. So their unit lasts 10 years,.. but in that span, you loose 0.2 - 0.3 mpg and that is $30,000 in fuel losses (fuel cost more a couple years ago, but even so) in that 10 year span. I would think that it be MUCH MUCH cheaper to replace the OEM once, hell even twice, in that period of time. - That was my thinking way back then,.. and still is today,. Sorry, but the "toughness" don't add up in efficiency losses over the timespan to replace the OEM unit for the average truck.

It has nothing to do with it working well for someone and lasting a longer time, that was never in question. Brock does have a good point about people needing an alternative if they have a special need or are looking at a lot more pressure than the factory units, nothing worng with that, but like others have said,,.. that is for the trucks of yester-year and just like the liquid with all the oil stiop leak in it,.. I am sure that came in real handy in the days of oil guzzling old clunky CDI engines, but with todays tighter tolerances, it is pretty much almost downright harmful this point to dump it into your oil.

Some things have application, even a 'tougher' CAC,.. but does it actually apply to what you are doing at the estimated cost of $2600/year in fuel losses? -- Most of the time these days that would be a NO.

If I were hauling junk in and out of a quarry, twisting my frame around all day, and the OEM unit was breaking every time I turned around, or was getting damaged by debris all the damn time, you had best bet I would swing the other way, because the costs would work out differently. My point in the end is to get people thinking past all the bulls#it advertizing and sales-pitch, because it is only a tactic to divert you away from what it is really going to cost you in the end.

[arch_stanton]

Well this has me thinking the aftermarket CAC may not be as bad for a new engine as Rawze is saying because if you drive the way Rawze has taught us to you won't be running high boost level. I bet at 10 PSI even a less efficient CAC will do a reasonable job of cooling the air, at 35 PSI the heat would be much higher and the pressure drop across will be greater and the difference more noticeable. just think out loud.

[dhirocz]

Actually I agree with you all.

I'm not here to bash anyone. Hell, in my life I've bought plenty of aftermarket parts. But some just suck, and some are true improvements, and most fall somewhere in between.

As a business major and someone who is tired of the bullshit I've seen, I cannot blindly accept what a business is telling me until I verify things for myself. I get burned every time I do that. I might be a little paranoid but I'm ok with that.

I agree, their main focus is a more durable cooler, and some people may need that...my point is that it appears to me that durability is traded for efficiency based on my limited observation. I am not bashing on them, in fact, if they had an option for a larger OEM fit cooler with improved fin density to restore what I'm seeing as a probable loss of thermal efficiency, even if it was more expensive, I'd probably go that route.

I just call it as I see it. I have never even held one. While I'm sure it's a nice piece...I'm picky, and there is no testing, no scientific data or anything to warrant me saying anything more than 'it appears more durable'. I merely wanted answers to some of my other requirements in a CAC so I could make a better decision. I'd hate to try to save $300 to find out I shot my foot because I didn't do my homework beforehand and now my engine hates it, etc...

I could most likely put one on, keep boost levels low and never have to worry about it again...but without having that actual test data, I really don't know how big the risk is. Im not saying an OEM is superior either...but it was what the engine was designed to use as well. Lots of things to consider.

[Waterloo]

Been reading one to many CAC threads, I finally went and picked up a new one today for the ProStar. Will have the old one out tonight or tomorrow. International Dealer price was $1139.00 + $200 for the corp deposit. Sixty one pounds and fits in a Honda Accord. LOL!

[dhirocz]

I'll have mine tomorrow. I'm glad seeing that mine was getting worse and worse...I couldn't maintain speed on level highway under about 15 psi. Cut my mileage almost in half.

Got back for my 34 so it's coming out tomorrow. Ended up getting it for $1200 plus an *ack!* $80 bushing kit to fit the t2000 for a new paccar CAC, no core.

[Waterloo]

I know... Fuel milage is dropping here too... Black smoke and to much boost... Nearly 1 million miles, it is time.

[JMBT]

Waterloo and Dhirocz, I think you guys both made a wise choice with the OEM’s! Also glad to hear you are both getting the bad ones off before they take out your turbos. $1200-1500, is a no brainer compaired to $4400 for a NEW cummins turbo, + a possible tow home from wherever you might be. Fuel Econ isn’t all a bad CAC is risking, that “too much boost” can quickly turn into an endless cycle of the ECM, asking for boost then overspooling the turbo, then quickly cutting boost to compensate, then realizing it needs boost and overspooling the turbo, ....and on and on until the turbo pops. All while you hold your foot completely still on the accelerator!
You can pick up a cheap CAC test kit on Amazon for about $170. I made one a while back and it worked great for a few times. Then one day, one of the ends gave way and shot across the shop with only 10 psi applied, so I broke down and bought a real one. I test my CAC every time I have the piping off for any reason.
Also, Rawze told me once not to force the new CAC onto the mounts, and if they seem too tight tweak them a little if you have to so the new CAC isn’t in a bind from the get go!! Good luck!

[dhirocz]

I'd be out there right now doing it but I spent most of the day being a weekend warrior and bringing the truck back here and picking up the CAC so it's cool enough to work on tomorrow.

I ended up building a CAC tester out of some stainless. 4" beaded exhaust tube, caps, bungs for the gauge and fitting and I'm good to go. Cost $70, Tig welded it at the house.

I'm considering making something to make testing the whole system easier.

I'll be replacing my turbo and actuator in the next couple months. I have an older isx turbo I've been hauling around, has a stiff vg arm with a few notches in it...my truck has the original high mileage turbo but is in better shape. I'll keep it as a spare and put the new ones on my truck. Next up...cylinder head.

[Waterloo]

Well, finally stopped raining long enough yesterday to install the New OEM CAC in the ProStar. All said and done, I think it was around a 2.5 hour job in total. Defiantly need two people to remove and set new unit. But, it dropped right in, had to do a bit of persuasion with a pry bar and some light tapping with a rubber mallet. Just a nudge here, a tweak there and just a few taps here in there with the mallet, nothing violent in the least. In fact, the CAC lined up nearly spot on, maybe 1/16" or 1/32" off in regards to lining up the holes. Like I said, just some light tweaking. And you do receive a box of new bolts with the CAC to secure it to the truck body. They sent two extra. And yes, I counted the holes and bolts... LOL! One thing, I didn't have any at my location and needed to get this thing installed, was anti-seize. I would recommend using that on the bolts that hold the CAC in. I will try to get some and reinstall those bolts, that I do need to do in case we ever need to remove.

One thing, I used my Milwaukee battery powered ratchet, that was a life saver once I had the bolts started, it was getting dark fast. I did the driver side first as far as installing the bolts. I set them by hand and left lose. I then went to the passenger side, where I had to tweak to get the front side bolt holes lined up to the truck body. Took a few taps and a nudge with the pry bar and I was able to line everything up. Put all of the bolts in, then went around with the battery ratchet and tightened. Re-installed the coolant jug, top plate and then the AC Condenser.

Pretty straight forward removal and install.

Just watch the hood, I took out my transmission cooler when I allowed the hood to fall to far. Watch those torque bars at the nose of the hood. One went right through my tranny cooler. Not the first time I have had the hood down like this, but I was using a shorter garbage can to rest it on. Divorce sucks in this regard, I miss my garbage can!

Oh, there was a $200 corp deposit on the CAC, need to take that back too. Just so you know, best to remove your old one prior to picking up the new one. It comes in this HUGE box, you could fit 6 of these CACs in the shipping box. Great if you have a pickup, I was using a Honda Accord. So, when you see the shipping box, don't freak out. ;-)