Short hauls and idle time on a farm. Opinions?

[NBFarms]

New here, and as my name states, we are on a farm and have short hauls and sometimes long waits in line and other situations that require idling. We currently have a ‘97 Pete 385 (Cummins M11) that has been fairly good to us- great compared to the stories I hear on newer trucks! The thought has been entertained to spruce up this truck and see how long it would go but we also like the look of newer trucks and my father would like an auto (I don’t, but such is life). Just looking for stories and opinions from people in similar scenarios. Thank you!

[Waterloo]

Spruce up the Pete... ;-)

The new emission trucks do not like to be idled if the mandate is intact. So, you will have that expense right off the bat. Then the engine itself, no telling what has gone on there, you really need to go over these things with a fine tooth comb, more so than most dealers will ever allow. These new trucks are a real crap shoot, unless you are going for brand new, and even then I would be leery. Others will chime in...

Some things to look for...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTu6cr1d1Lc&t=34s

[NBFarms]

Thank you for the reply, Waterloo! I have had a local veteran O/O tell me the same thing. The demandates and gliders have been interesting to see and I have also wondered about putting a crate motor and transmission into a truck with a trashed engine using a harness kit from a company like http://www.kustomtruck.com.

I am trying not to be “that person who has their mind made up and still asking for advice.” What makes it hard for me to commit to fixing up the current truck is that I have no idea how much money/hours it would take to get it where we want it. I would have to do some digging to find how many miles were on it when we got it about 14yrs ago but it has about 590,000mi now if that gives you any idea how short the trips are. I have seen it roll over 10,000 hrs and is on 3255hrs now.

[bwake]

I'd suggest getting a glider myself. You get the benefit of having a new truck with the reliability of whatever older engine you are comfortable with. Many of my customers are running these with either detroit 60's, Cummins N14, or 3406/C15 Cat's and love them. Fixing an older truck can get into big money depending on the issues it's having and the ability to be able to complete the work yourself.

[NBFarms]

If we went with the glider it would probably be the N14. What concerns me is what Rawze has said about getting parts that aren’t meeting the original build quality. Also, by the time it would need repaired, the situation could be that much worse unless the aftermarket steps up to the plate, maybe they are good already, I just don’t have the experience.

[Rawze]

(10-03-2018 )NBFarms Wrote:  If we went with the glider it would probably be the N14. What concerns me is what Rawze has said about getting parts that aren’t meeting the original build quality. Also, by the time it would need repaired, the situation could be that much worse unless the aftermarket steps up to the plate, maybe they are good already, I just don’t have the experience.

There is a concrete company that has lots of money to spend on trucks. They tried to go "Glider" with a bunch of 12-7's / S60's by Fritz-geratol. -- They only have one left,.. they could not keep the them on the roads, ended up sending several back or selling them because of extensive repeating problems and premature engine failures. According to them, most people are using after-market reman kits in them and an OEM S60 is expensive enough to price it out of the market. - for the one truck they have suffered to keep, they have a reman spare engine sitting on a stand they buiult themselves with all 100% genuine parts for the next time it goes out.

Since then, they have resorted to using ISX engines and de-mandating them brand new despite loosing the warranty for them. They work without any problems.

Waterloo was there for a visit with me when he was over and they shared the same story with more detail to him while I was there. - Those guys would tell you to run the other way. (reference: http://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?t...5#pid27835 ).

Next is the fuel mileage losses for highway applications. You aren't getting high fuel mileage out of one of those older beasts, they simply cannot compete with anything that has a VG turbo on it and a more modern computer for efficiency after one has been programmed for it.

I did the math on one that a guy had,.. it was a T660 glider with an S60 in it. it has about 250k miles or so on it and was already leaking oil out of every nook and cranny from blo-by. - But even with a certified reman, in a million miles, I save about $120,000+ dollars in fuel alone with my 8.3 million mile average mpg to the pump over what he had. - Some have this argument towards "what good is the fuel saving if you have to chase emissions issues and give it all to stealershits" --- But that is bad logic based on the sheer stupidity of many people who can't get off their arsse and maintain their truck regularly instead of waiting for all the idiot lights to come on. - Idiot truck ownership at its best. "Check the oil,... run off to the stealershit every time a light comes on or it stops going when you press the fuel pedal". What a wonderful business plan!.

the thick of it is such that if you maintain and care for a modern engine properly, they are much more profitable than engines of the past by quite a large margin. It is a matter of "higher profit with modern engine + have to take care of it" or "Lower profit with older engines so that you can get away with being lazy/neglecting the crap out of what you got".

I'll take the higher profits any day. It is worth every bit of the extra efforts. A "Glider" still has every single bit of the same problems as any other modern truck has when looking past the engine itself. Problems with wiring, cheap Chinese components, plastic everywhere, etc... Not friendly at all to the "neglect it till it breaks" crowd any ways. No matter what you got these days,.. YOUR GOING TO BE TURNING WRENCHES ON IT IF YOU WANT AS DECENT PROFIT FROM IT".

[NBFarms]

Very good information, thank you! Now if I just knew demandating in IL and STL would be safe enough (I doubt it) :(

[bwake]

Fitzgerald does not put out the best quality in my experience. I've had to "fix" several units that came from their facility with issues that should have never made it onto the street. At least not if I were the one working on it. And as a side note, their "warranty" that is sold for these trucks are not worth the paper they are written on. A complete waste of $5-6k!

The older engines are not getting near the fuel mileage as the de-mandated newer engines, they just can't compete with the updated technology that is on the current engines. The caveat here is that he is going to be using this on the farm with few miles driven and extended idling time; mpg is not of the utmost concern in this situation.

If he is going to buy new and pull all the problems off before dumping tons of cash into it, (which is what will happen with his style of operation) by all means this is the way to go. If you are looking for a turn-key unit that will give you many years of service, a glider kit from a quality builder will serve the need that he has.

[Chamberpains]

So will a properly demandated newer truck. With the benifit that he will have access to quality new parts for years to come. If he learns how to care for this newer equipment to make it last he will be a better smarter businessman that is further ahead of the game for when the inevitable evolution and extinction steam rolls over everyone that choose to hang on to past. Even in the farming business you need to modernize. Just be smart about it. Farming has never been about fancy and shiney. Do your homework and find the truck that will hold up and carry you in to the future. They build simple trucks still. Its just everyone wants the newest gadgets and creature comforts and thats where a lot of problems occur.

Glider kits are the equivalent of a 20 year old getting a heart transplant from a 60 year old. There may be a few good years left on it but soon enough you'll find it ain't holding up to what other 20 year olds are doing.