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SIDE_SHOW · 08-01-2019, **(Subject: Cm 870 cry for help )**

Hey there i know I have posted about this before but I couldn't find the old thread and I've had some new Info...I've got a 2007 Pete 386 with a cm 870 in it this engine is a basket case and have been having trouble with it I should start by saying that this engine is not the engine that came in the truck the guy I bought the truck from took it in to get the original engine inframed they did the inframe it ran for 5k miles then it threw a rod thru the block....so they told him they would find a block and redo do it. well a year went by and nothing so finally they found a pullout that supposedly had 250k on it and that is what is in there now. Another problem is I have no clue what the esn is for this engine because the sticker on the valve cover is all messed up looks like it was burnt off in a fire and ive been told they didn't stamp the block on these. The other problem is that I'm about 99 percent sure they used all the stuff off the other engine and swapped it all over ecm, turbo, ect. Also the guy that I bought it from told me he had the other motor "d3l3ted" years before the inframe so here is the question if they reused the old ecm without reflashing it for the engine they put in could it be possible that the tuning is trash and causing problems or maybe it worked for the other motor but not this one needs different tune bassed on the esn I don't have? I had been having a hot start issue when you would run the truck down the road and shut it off you had to let the truck cool down before it would crank to start I found that there is a rubber boot on the tube that goes around the back of the engine for the egr and it has a huge hole in it and was blowing soot directly onto the starter along with abunch of other holes in that that thing so I unplugged egr valve in closed spot for now and am putting a expandable freeze plug in the intake to deal with that for the time being so that i won't have the soot blowing out there and in several other places on that tube and the freeze plug keeps me from loosing boost from same holes. It stumbles awful at startup never really idles "smooth" gets terrible fuel mileage and I just did exhaust manifold gaskets had 3 blown out and a blown out turbo/ manifold gasket I replaced with the metal gaskets and tourqed manifold bolts to 45ft lbs and the turbo studs to 75ft lbs I don't know how to check these vgt turbos to see if they are any good the endplay in the impellers was fine but the cross shaft is leaking oil how do I check that to see whats up there? I am trying to get this damn thing ironed out without insite and it's driving me wild where can I get that insite and adapters that I'll need without breaking the bank and what do I even need? Any and all help is greatly appreciated thanks you guys

Chamberpains · 08-01-2019, **(Subject: Cm 870 cry for help )**

Here is a link to your original post to this mess you have. http://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=3464

We already answered where you can get Insite and an Inline adapter. You said your equipment was weeks out but that was a year ago.

What happened with the ESN and CPL you originally posted? "79188948 cpl is 8520" Did it end up being wrong or what?

Did you ever contact Mr Hagg? Unilevers or MommaBurt would be a better contact on this. PM either one of them, they are very trustworthy and know waht they're talking about. I believe they mess with more CM870 programming than Mr Hagg. You need the correct program in the ECM to match the exact engine you have. THIS NEEDS TO HAPPEN 1ST BEFORE YOU GO ANY FURTHER TRYING TO STRAIGHTEN THIS MESS OUT.

Did you ever run any of the injector tests? Bubble tests? Cylinder cut out test?

Your turbo sounds like its in bad shape if its leaking oil out of the actuator arm. You can pull the actuator off by unbolting it and sliding it off. This is a link to Cummins Quickserve (IT'S FREE) https://quickserve.cummins.com/info/index.html it register that ESN you posted (its for a CM870) it will have a full step by step instructions on how to properly check your turbo out. With actual tolerances of what is acceptable to keep running and what and when it is junk and should be taken out of service.

Did you ever follow the procedure Rawze posted on checking your timing\fueling actuators? http://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=110
If so, what shape were they in? How bad did the wiring look to them. Its fairly common for the plugs and harness itself to go bad. Especially after the dipshits that put this thing together for you fooled around with everything thing. I feel your pain on how bad this truck was put together. I have a very similar story with mine. There are ways to test the harness and plugs. That is all on Quickserve also. Run that procedure down. Don't just throw parts at this monster you have. You will probably end up throwing a lot of $$$ away if you do.

It can all be fixed and we'll help you get there but you have to do the work in the proper order or we're all just gonna be shooting in the dark. MAKE SURE YOU HAVE THE PROPER PROGRAM TO THE EXACT CPL ENGINE YOU HAVE IN THE TRUCK. Then we can proceed to diagnosing the rest of you problems.

That expandable freeze plug had better be held in real good. With 36+ psi pushing on it it may come dislodged. There are a couple companies making blocking plates out there. I won't link you to any because they have crap sites and sell copy and paste BS horrible programming. But the blocking plate that you remove the Venturi mixing pipe are solid enough and last a long time.

Rawze · 08-01-2019, **(Subject: Cm 870 cry for help )**

Assuming the engine itself IS an 870 for a moment ...

The determining factors that make up a particular CPL and engine tier on the CM870 are...

* The injector part#'s.
* The wedges that were used to put the engine together with.
* The injector cam (has to match whatever injectors that were installed).
* The valve cam (has to match whatever injectors that were installed).
* The pistons themselves (has to match whatever tier engine it is).

Because it is an 870, if you cannot find out what CPL/ser# it has, then your only option is to wedge the engine to see what wedges were used when it was built (most likely either 4 and 6, or 6 and 6) ... after that, you need to see what injector part#'s it has installed (by getting the part# off the injectors themselves) and go from there, as you will not be able to get the part#'s off the cams or pistons without disassembling the engine. *Pray no one has replaced the injectors with the wrong part#s in its past.

With this info, the right programming can be determined. - I would suggest you flash it back to whatever factory programming that is, once found, for starters towards solving your issues.

Engines don't fix themselves, so the mechanical stuff you mentioned is on you to solve... that is how we make money in this trucking world these days .. by fixing on our own trucks, because that is our only advantage against the mega-fleeces out there driving freight prices so low otherwise.

Now for the red flag I see...

ALSO, you claim it is a 2007 ..... MOST 2007 TRUCKS WERE NOT BUILT WITH A CM870 (Have been told there are a few out there though) ... 2007 AND NEWER TRUCKS ALMOST ALL OF THEM REQUIRED A DPF IN THEM. -- DID IT USED TO HAVE A DPF FILTER ON IT? If so, and someone removed it, then the original engine was a CM871, not an 870,... huge difference!.

-- IF YOU AREN'T 110% SURE WHAT MODEL ENGINE YOU HAVE, YOU NEED TO TAKE PICTURES OF THE ENGINE AND POST THEM HERE.

It may not be a bad idea to, at this point, make an appointment with and take it down to Mr. Hags if you really want some help with getting everything right. It sounds like you might be in over your head.

tree98 · 08-01-2019, **(Subject: Cm 870 cry for help )**

Rawze I have a 2007 T800 with an 870, it's all original nothing added or taken off. Maybe the 2007 model year trucks that were built in 2006 didn't have to comply with the dpf??? Just guessing.

Hammerhead · 08-01-2019, **(Subject: Cm 870 cry for help )**

(08-01-2019 )tree98 Wrote: Rawze I have a 2007 T800 with an 870, it's all original nothing added or taken off. Maybe the 2007 model year trucks that were built in 2006 didn't have to comply with the dpf??? Just guessing.

Carry over order.
Chassis that have engines/components assigned to them from previous emissions specs that the factory cannot complete prior to model year changeover date are allowed to be completed with the new model year assigned to it, but legally still using the prior model year emissions. In other words, yours was a very early production '07 that components were ordered and received while the last of the '06 model year trucks were being assembled, but probably assembled in the first couple weeks of '07 model year production.

This is a tip/trick if you're ever spec ordering a truck. Get your spec sheet completed and submitted for very end of model year production. Make a couple odd option choices on the spec so that it gets pushed back in the quew slightly, and you will most likely end up with a new model year produced truck at prior model year pricing...capturing asset value. This is particularly helpful to those who rotate equipment regularly as it increases trade in/resale value by one model year without the actual cash investment.

I did this on 2 of the trucks I ordered. I went through the unpublished options book and added some minor obscure options that I knew the factory wouldn't have in standard production inventory. This means they had to source the optional accessories, which pushed my production date by a couple of weeks. I got my 97 Pete for 96 pricing which was around $4000 less. It was the 12th 97 model truck built.

SIDE_SHOW · 08-01-2019, **(Subject: Cm 870 cry for help )**

(08-01-2019 )Chamberpains Wrote: Here is a link to your original post to this mess you have. http://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=3464

We already answered where you can get Insite and an Inline adapter. You said your equipment was weeks out but that was a year ago.

What happened with the ESN and CPL you originally posted? "79188948 cpl is 8520" Did it end up being wrong or what?

Did you ever contact Mr Hagg? Unilevers or MommaBurt would be a better contact on this. PM either one of them, they are very trustworthy and know waht they're talking about. I believe they mess with more CM870 programming than Mr Hagg. You need the correct program in the ECM to match the exact engine you have. THIS NEEDS TO HAPPEN 1ST BEFORE YOU GO ANY FURTHER TRYING TO STRAIGHTEN THIS MESS OUT.

Did you ever run any of the injector tests? Bubble tests? Cylinder cut out test?

Your turbo sounds like its in bad shape if its leaking oil out of the actuator arm. You can pull the actuator off by unbolting it and sliding it off. This is a link to Cummins Quickserve (IT'S FREE) https://quickserve.cummins.com/info/index.html it register that ESN you posted (its for a CM870) it will have a full step by step instructions on how to properly check your turbo out. With actual tolerances of what is acceptable to keep running and what and when it is junk and should be taken out of service.

Did you ever follow the procedure Rawze posted on checking your timing\fueling actuators? http://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=110
If so, what shape were they in? How bad did the wiring look to them. Its fairly common for the plugs and harness itself to go bad. Especially after the dipshits that put this thing together for you fooled around with everything thing. I feel your pain on how bad this truck was put together. I have a very similar story with mine. There are ways to test the harness and plugs. That is all on Quickserve also. Run that procedure down. Don't just throw parts at this monster you have. You will probably end up throwing a lot of $$$ away if you do.

It can all be fixed and we'll help you get there but you have to do the work in the proper order or we're all just gonna be shooting in the dark. MAKE SURE YOU HAVE THE PROPER PROGRAM TO THE EXACT CPL ENGINE YOU HAVE IN THE TRUCK. Then we can proceed to diagnosing the rest of you problems.

That expandable freeze plug had better be held in real good. With 36+ psi pushing on it it may come dislodged. There are a couple companies making blocking plates out there. I won't link you to any because they have crap sites and sell copy and paste BS horrible programming. But the blocking plate that you remove the Venturi mixing pipe are solid enough and last a long time.

Chanmberpains thank you for finding that old thread I lost that esn and I had called the shop that put the engine in to get it. i was still skeptical as to weather that is in fact the esn but it's all i have to go off of right now at this moment. I will go ahead and check those actuators and wiring today and the turbo actuator... My dad had 7 strokes a month ago and I've been sitting so I'm super low in funds till I get this thing on the road... I'll send mommaburt a PM so I can see about getting the proper tuning in there... This is my dad's truck but be won't be able to run it anymore and my cm2250 just dropped a liner so this is what I'm down to I will keep y'all updated this time and thanks for all the help

SIDE_SHOW · 08-01-2019, **(Subject: Cm 870 cry for help )**

I just sent MommaBurt a PM hoping to hear back soon so I can get this thing on track

Chamberpains · 08-01-2019, **(Subject: Cm 870 cry for help )**

Rawze makes a good point about the engine mix up. Snap a good picture of both sides of the engine. 1 with a clear picture of the turbo. Take them from about the valve cover height looking down. Try to get as much of the engine and components as possible. And maybe a clear pic of the burnt up tag on the valve cover. Maybe we can see something recognizable on it. Amd post them.

Rawze · 08-01-2019, **(Subject: Cm 870 cry for help )**

(08-01-2019 )tree98 Wrote: Rawze I have a 2007 T800 with an 870, it's all original nothing added or taken off. Maybe the 2007 model year trucks that were built in 2006 didn't have to comply with the dpf??? Just guessing.

Thanks for sharing that... Learn something new every day on here, did not know there were some actual early-model '07 (likely sold in '06) cm870 trucks out there. Will go back and fix my post.