An inframe in my near future

[Andre_The_Giant]

06 KW, T800, mandated ISX870, Tri axle dump. (local deliverys)

Skip to the last paragraph if you don't want to hear a long story, but can help with your knowledge.

A little background-
I purchased the truck used from my father in April of 2017. With about 370k mi?/ 21k Hrs?. It now has 475,000mi./25,000 HRs. I bought the truck being told it could potentially last to 1 million miles or so... For whatever reason my father is convinced hours do not matter... SMH
At the time I didn’t know any better, and i assumed the same.

I just recently discovered Rawze’s amazing website and videos. And find it safe to say when it comes to Engine Hours, that is not the case.. I try to make ALL my own repairs, installed recommended gauges, did the EGR tune up, and starting drive as advised, Although I’ve always considered myself a safe slow driver, I now pay way more attention to fuel consumption.

I wish I knew then what I do now. I’m still very grateful for my father showing me the ropes and selling me his truck. But I wish I planed for an old engine right away. He did not give me the truck, I took a loan out to purchase it from him. He used the money to put a down payment on a brand new one. And still maintains his new truck by the miles, not hours...smh

I haven't been unable to convince him to change his stubborn ways. But enough about that,

My issue

My truck had an leaking injector for years now. (started when he owned it) And he was told by someone that it wasn’t a big deal. So at the time, I assumed the same. Don’t fathers know best?

Symptoms included random vapor-lock when making hot start-ups, very very slightly lower then normal power when pulling hills loaded, random rough idle from time to time and fuel tank becoming pressurized every now and then (he always blamed a bad tank vent) None of these things seem'd like a big deal to him, it didn’t do it all the time... The truck was still drive able and seemed reliable. So i believed the same

Up until about a couple months ago, when my truck started to smoke a bit more under load (and lose more power) I assumed that maybe an injector “finally crapped out” so I began to do research on how to test and replace them. Which is when I found Rawze’s injector test video, over head set video, EGR tune up, Quick-serve etc..

After I did an EGR tune up, and an overhead set, inspected cam lobes etc. I found the injector in cylinder num. 1 failed a Leak test, and all others passed. So I changed the bad one. Easy fix right? Wrong. The truck still smokes and has low power under heavy acceleration(with a load on). So I did the leak test again, this time all cylinders passed. Now what?

I bought a Snap on bore-scope tool to inspect each chamber.. I looked into cylinder num. 1 and found the sad sight of a slightly melted piston =(


Slightly leaking oil also it seems..I’m assuming the bad injector caused this? but I’m not an expert

Cylinders 2-3 looked pretty normal, with some signs of age. I didn't continue to 4-6.

Sadly It looks like I need to plan a rebuild/ Inframe in the near future. Which sucks because the truck isn’t even paid off until April. I’m going to try and drive it “as is” for now, and hope for the best. Going as easy as possible..

I'm curious about the pros and cons of driving it like this. And was hoping to find some answers to some probably dumb questions. Like, what other components do I risk damaging? If I were to rebuild the engine wouldn’t we put all new internals anyway? Or do I run the risk or ruining the block? Should I go back in with the borescope tool and try to take more pics of anything specific? Should I preform anymore tests on the engine? should I stop driving it and get it rebuilt ASAP? There is some air coming out of the oil fill cap, but no smoke or oil spray. The truck doesn’t leave the state (Connecticut) so if a break down occurs it’s not a big deal. Hopefully I can get a second loan, or at least be able to put all the parts on a credit card to pay later. Is there a ballpark inframe $ number?

I want to personally thank everyone on this site for so much useful information. I am truly blessed we are full of active, knowledgeable members. I would be so lost right now if it wasn't for the information on here.

Hopefully my pictures and story help someone else one day, on things to look out for (such as high engine hours) And also not to let an injector leak very long if you think one is. (If that’s really what caused this) Also, even that your dad can be wrong LMAO just kidding.

Skip to here-

But the Most important question... how should I go about my overdue engine rebuild? I’ll be working outside, next to a double car garage for lots of bench room. I should be able to remove most things myself. I have a friend who can help me with the gears and static timing part. He has the pullers and wedges. But I don’t feel confident enough to counter bore the block. Nor do I want it done in the elements. Do any reliable company’s offer long blocks? Or short blocks with a core refund? I do want a brand new head, my cams and rockers are smooth but discolored. Should I re-use them? I will be spending a lot more time on here, reading and trying to educate myself. Is there a ballpark inframe $ number?

Thank you to everyone on here, your time is very much appreciated

[tree98]

You in the USA? If so what general area?

[Rawze]

If u open it up, it must be counter-bored if u want it to last. Raise liner height to 0.014" while your at it to strengthen it on its next million mile journey.

i work outdoors all the time. It is no big deal. just buy a cheap 10' x 10' popup canope from Walmart or amazon and tie it down so the wind cannot blow it away.


- I Use spray on all the exposed metal surfaces, cams, and other internals that are stored outside away from direct weather while it is apart ...

This stuff stays a bit wet, like an oily coating, bit tacky does not run off. Easy clean up with some acetone.: https://amzn.to/2KXWYe8 <- I use it the most on stuff that is going to go back together. rockers, cams, block, liner areas, and anything else that is going to go back inside the engine. It can also be sprayed on the inside of the engine, crank, insides of block, top of head, etc. for extra rust protection + some extra lube while putting engine back together, as it will easily get flushed out during that first oil change.

Waterloo's truck was apart outside in the weather for damn near 3 months (covered with tarps and canopy so noting got rained on. - 2 months of this time, it was down to the exposed block. All we used was this stuff on the metal surfaces when it was going to sit etc., nothing rusted whatsoever.

The other stuff I use, it dries like a hardened wax, is a bit more long term but also is nice on gaskets, etc. to help seal. Its a more long term protectant: https://amzn.to/2OqAoN4 <- I use light dusting of it on all gaskets, exposed areas where metal gaskets go, as they are installed, wiring, electrical terminals, screws that are not painted, and everything else that you would not want to rust in the harsh weather. i spray it all over my truck every year to prevent corrosion and rust problems on just about every surface and even use it to prevent plastic stuff from rotting.

[Chamberpains]

He said the truck never leaves Connecticut.

[Andre_The_Giant]

Thanks Rawze ill order a few cans right now just to have in stock. I definitely want to Counter-bore it when the time comes, i even know a guy with the tool. But dont know if he can properly use it.

[snailexpress]

(11-27-2019 )Andre_The_Giant Wrote:  Thanks Rawze ill order a few cans right now just to have in stock. I definitely want to Counter-bore it when the time comes, i even know a guy with the tool. But dont know if he can properly use it.

Main problem you have to solve for quality repair. Too many guys with tools only few knows how to use tools.

[Rawze]

(11-27-2019 )Andre_The_Giant Wrote:  Thanks Rawze ill order a few cans right now just to have in stock. I definitely want to Counter-bore it when the time comes, i even know a guy with the tool. But dont know if he can properly use it.

here are some reference numbers/extra info about it ...
http://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?t...9#pid28349
and...
http://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?t...7#pid30177

[Waterloo]

Waterloo is going to ramble a bit here... And it is a ramble, and I hope it helps...

You should be good outside, just make sure you have something to remove and set the head with, a fork lift or some sort of gantry crane, it is heavy, and don't forget to remove the plugs from the old head which need to be installed in the new head...

And that marine spray, that was a parts life saver, use it liberally, we had no issues when assembling, everything was rust free. And we went through some real wet weather too, and everything was stored outside, there was no indoor storage for anything.

When you set the liners, only use mechanical gauges to measure, the digital ones can really mess you up.

Set the hood off to the side, get it out of the way...

That front structure should just lift out as one unit, radiator and CAC, set it aside.

When tearing down, use zip lock bags and a sharpie. Remove the bolts for say the turbo, mark bag turbo, set aside, water pump, same thing, each component that you remove put all of the nuts, bolts and pieces in their own designated zip lock bag. When it comes time to reassemble, it will be a breeze. Rawze showed me that, and three months later when putting the motor back together, after forgetting most of this stuff, it went back together very smoothly.

And put the front end, steer tires, up on blocks, both sides, you will need the room underneath to install the bearings, oil pump, pan, etc... I spent a lot of time under there, get her as high as you safely can. We used sheets of 1/4" plywood under the truck to work on. Much easier on the body than gravel or hot asphalt.

One thing you should replace is the oil cooler, it is behind the EGR Cooler inside of the block in the water jacket. On mine we skipped that, and pretty much left that side of the truck intact as mine was replaced during the first botched in frame. I would replace that cooler, you have the motor apart, do it, because they do fail with age.

When assembling, use lots and lots of Slick Lube, something that looked to have been used sparingly, if at all on the first in frame. My lower end bearings were shot, and they did not even have 100,000 miles on them. The cam shafts, make sure you use the proper Loc-Tite on the camshafts where the gears attach. Very VERY Important. And the plate, I believe it is on the injector cam, that needs to be replaced too. That old style plate is prone to cracking, so replace with the beefier part.

When you fill the motor with oil for the first time, Rawze used a small electric pump we borrowed from Mr Hagg. We plugged it in to the block, where the oil filter resides, there are a couple spots that you can screw a line into. We used all of the old oil to refill the motor using this pump. We stopped when oil was coming out of the oil galleys flooding the interior of the head. We also poured a few gallons of oil in the head too. She started right up.

Like Rawze said, get a canopy, I brought my own, the 8x8 one that Home Depot sells for around $79. Secure it to the truck with a rope from the center and you will have a nice work area. Or get the larger 10x10 and you can wall it off, which may be a better alternative to the smaller canopy.

Also have a paint area set up, use the paint that Cummins sells, and use Por 15 as an extra layer of protection, especially on the oil pan, don't waste your money on the stuff Home Depot sells. I spent quite a bit of time cleaning rust off of old parts, grinding and what not, and then painting. I saved some parts, others were to the point they needed to be replaced. The oil return from the turbo to the oil pan is one such item that had to be replaced. I would just figure on a new one of those too...

You will find all sorts of stuff, you got it apart, at least spend time on the rough stuff, because the last thing you will want to do after completing this job is to tear back into that motor. Trust me on that.

And this is a good time to do the front engine mounts, along with the front structure mounts and cab bushings.

It was honestly not that difficult a job when you really look at it. Other than cutting the liners and setting the head, which was a painful experience for both me and Rawze... Cleaning the top of the block, sanding, very hard on the back, especially the rear cylinder area... When I say sanding, we used stones and oil, along with leveling blocks, time consuming, and make sure you plug the oil galleys in the block when cleaning and sanding the top of the block, very important.

And that is the thing, Rawze pretty much left me alone, he was off doing his stuff. We had issues getting the new parts, took over a month, than a solid month of daily rain, and more rain and even more rain... We could do little to nothing out there, which was very frustrating, so I helped Rawze around the house... It was a fun time, and Rawze is a beyond gracious host.

I would say do it, if you get into trouble or have a question, like I did a few times, I just pulled out my phone and went to Rawze's video series on his rebuild or directly to Cummins QuickServe. I rarely went to Rawze for help, as he had already answered the question in his videos, no need to bother the man.

And you will find all of the torque specs in QuickServe, just go to the engine assembly section, there you will find all of the steps required, and please follow the steps, which is what most shops do not do and really botch the motor up. Cummins does really give you everything you need and it is free to access, use it.

Sorry for the long winded rant... Just wanted to let you know it is not that bad, and with patience it was actually kind of fun. One of those see one, do one teach one times in my life.

Good luck!

[Andre_The_Giant]

Awesome, thank you for all of that information Waterloo. My neighbor does have an old forklift we used to remove my radiator once, but idles high and is jerky. Maybe ill try to fix it for him sometime soon. I think he said its a carburetor issue?
   

Does it matter which spot you pump oil into for the first start up? I'm assuming this is to prime to oil pump?
Copy on the Cummings paint, whats is a good primer to use under it? I have a small blasting cabinet in my basement, so hopefully derustifying isnt too tedious.

Thank you Rawze for the references and extra info. I will begin reading them at once, i am not a strong reader so it may take some time