450ST CM2250 Help

[BTrain]

Looking at a 2012 T800 with a 450ST CM2250 in it. We really want the truck as it matches the other one I purchased from this fella, but the one I bought had a 565 CM 870 Recon stuffed in it...

I guess I’m sort of let down in the fact that this truck I’m looking at has a 450ST The more I Read about them.

Can anyone tell me the main differences between the 450St and other CM2250 ISX15’s?

What is the safe Max HP for this engine as well? We will likely only be pulling a Tridem Grain trailer with it so I’m not too worried but I just would like to know that it will last.

Also it will be a farm truck so won’t see much more than 10,000kms a year.

Engine SN 79505574
CPL 3719

[JimT]

That engine has EGR, DPF and SCR. The 870 only has EGR. There are plenty of other internal differences, but I'm not an expert on that. For your application, farm use, you may want to consider getting rid of those systems, depending on your location and laws.

The 2250/2350/X15 all have a fuel pump that goes bad on average of 400,000 miles or equivalent engine hours. Typically you just rebuilt the pump head as a preventative measure for a few hundred $. Anyone with an hour, basic tools and a bench vise can get it done.

I have a 2012 450ST, it pulls 80,000lbs just fine, depending what gearing is in the truck. Keep the RPM over 1500, like the rest of the Cummins engines. The ST stands for Smart Torque, which gives a short term torque boost in the top 2 gears. Pretty sure it's just some software logic that is available on these newer engines. I think most people here turn that off (?). I think mine got bumped up around 525hp. I think it depends on which parts were used inside the engine. Sometimes in these newer engines the programming is all that limits it to a lower HP/Torque.

What kind of miles are on the truck? The need for an overhaul on the newer trucks is typically sooner then the older ones. Largely due to increased abuse from the emissions systems and corporate neglect for proper maintenance. These 2250s had issues with carbon packing and chewed up cams from excess soot in the oil.

[Waterloo]

Everything JimT said, gearing will be your main culprit in power loss, the 450st will work fine in your application. If you are going to purchase, see if you can pop the top on the motor and exam the camshaft and rollers. Also do a forced regen and see what the numbers are in regards to hg. That will tell you quite a bit, these emission systems can get very expensive if you decide to purchase and keep.

Myself, if the truck checks out, and you are not running around out in California, I would kill the beast and eliminate the mandate.

What is the truck mileage and what gear ratio in the rear ends, also which transmission? Private party or fleet truck? The fleets normally change the oil every 50,000 miles, the motor is normally shot by the time they sell it. These are 500,000 mile motors and either dispose of the truck or in frame the motor. Rare to see an abused fleet truck make it to 600,000 miles nowadays.

[BTrain]

(08-16-2020 )Waterloo Wrote:  Everything JimT said, gearing will be your main culprit in power loss, the 450st will work fine in your application. If you are going to purchase, see if you can pop the top on the motor and exam the camshaft and rollers. Also do a forced regen and see what the numbers are in regards to hg. That will tell you quite a bit, these emission systems can get very expensive if you decide to purchase and keep.

Myself, if the truck checks out, and you are not running around out in California, I would kill the beast and eliminate the mandate.

What is the truck mileage and what gear ratio in the rear ends, also which transmission? Private party or fleet truck? The fleets normally change the oil every 50,000 miles, the motor is normally shot by the time they sell it. These are 500,000 mile motors and either dispose of the truck or in frame the motor. Rare to see an abused fleet truck make it to 600,000 miles nowadays.

Thanks. Yes I will be giving it a weight loss right away. There’s two of these trucks available and are identical. One deleted And tuned to 500 and one is stock. Believe one has 3.91 and the other 4.10’s. I’m in Canada, also am aware of the ceramic to titanium high pressure pump piston update. Thanks for the reply guys. Likely will purchase one of these, one has had the head done twice etc and they sit around 1.2m kms.

[Waterloo]

Stay away from the deleted one...

[BTrain]

(08-16-2020 )JimT Wrote:  That engine has EGR, DPF and SCR. The 870 only has EGR. There are plenty of other internal differences, but I'm not an expert on that. For your application, farm use, you may want to consider getting rid of those systems, depending on your location and laws.

The 2250/2350/X15 all have a fuel pump that goes bad on average of 400,000 miles or equivalent engine hours. Typically you just rebuilt the pump head as a preventative measure for a few hundred $. Anyone with an hour, basic tools and a bench vise can get it done.

I have a 2012 450ST, it pulls 80,000lbs just fine, depending what gearing is in the truck. Keep the RPM over 1500, like the rest of the Cummins engines. The ST stands for Smart Torque, which gives a short term torque boost in the top 2 gears. Pretty sure it's just some software logic that is available on these newer engines. I think most people here turn that off (?). I think mine got bumped up around 525hp. I think it depends on which parts were used inside the engine. Sometimes in these newer engines the programming is all that limits it to a lower HP/Torque.

What kind of miles are on the truck? The need for an overhaul on the newer trucks is typically sooner then the older ones. Largely due to increased abuse from the emissions systems and corporate neglect for proper maintenance. These 2250s had issues with carbon packing and chewed up cams from excess soot in the oil.

Thanks Jim, it has roughly 1.2m kms but only 300,000kms on rebuilt head and some other items as well, paperwork comes with it. So in your opinion is the smart torque turned off? Would you say you have 525hp and 1850 torque? I don’t obviously want to push it to the breaking point but 500hp and 1850 torque across the entire rpm range would be better to me. Truck has 18 speed, 4.10, full lockers, super 40’s etc.

[Waterloo]

Rebuilt head? Not an in frame with a new head? Sounds like someone took a few shortcuts, a few too many if that is the case. More than likely needs to be in framed, a complete rebuild, especially if it is a reman head, which are junk. More than likely the motor needs help, I would not boost anything on it until it is throughly inspected, checking for coolant leaks and really looking over that head, cam and rollers... And the lower end... If that has not been done, throwing a rod through the side of the block is a real possibility. Wrist pins...

[JimT]

Agree with Waterloo. You're basically better off buying the used truck that NEEDS an inframe for as cheap as possible and paying to get it done properly (see various other threads on here about what should be done) as opposed to buying one that has an inframe already done from an unknown shop. I would absolutely stay away from the deleted truck. If I had to guess that's the one which has been rebuilt and is probably ready to be rebuilt again due to bad programming and cut-rate work. Worst is if it was rebuilt be the dealer/cummins!

If your going to demandate the truck don't take it to any shops or advertised sellers, find the help you need here, when the time comes.

Also, the fuel pump is something that needs to be rebuilt every 400,000-ish miles. Regardless whether it's been updated in the past. Those pumps always wear out. Even the pickup trucks are using the same style pump now, only smaller, and having the same issues.