I need Ideas on what to check.

[Bamaprez]

My Motor is a demandated CPL 3606 set to factory 550 1850 tq. 750,000 heavy haul miles. in a 4 Axle VNL 18 speed 3.90 gears. Max boast 32 LBS Max EGT 930 post turbo. Now for the issue. started losing water last fall. Took into my Shop. "reputable has done a lot of work for me over the years. Trouble shot down to exhaust in radiator, pulled head found cracked head between 4 and 5. Decided to do in-frame while we're there because of millage. All cummings parts "That took a while". After inframe truck made 250 unloaded mills before #5 liner split and got the piston, No rod damage or crank damage found reluctor ring chipped. Pulled motor back down checked crank, shop checked and measured block where liners insert and recut counter bores pulled orings and installed liners and measured protrusion. I was there to witness this. after second infram I drove truck approximately 500 unloaded miles then decided it would be ok to load it. After 328 loaded miles babying the truck. KaBoom Haven't pulled it down yet but sounded like the same bottom end let got. Will start tearing down with my mechanic Monday. I'm sick and at a loss. I might could understand it the problem started with a bottom end issue but that did occur until after the first infram But it started with a cracked head. any direction to look would be appreciated. John

[Rawze]

(05-08-2022 )Bamaprez Wrote:  ...
Took into my Shop. "reputable has done a lot of work for me over the years.
...

YOUR OWN WORDS ARE YOUR BIGGEST MISTAKE!!!.. IT IS OBVIOUS...

yeah.. your problem is more than obvious.. YOUR MECHANIC DOES NOT KNOW SQUAT ABOUT ISX ENGINES!!... RUN LIKE ALL H3ELL AWAY FROM THAT PLACE AS FAST AS YOU CAN!!!... IT IS KILLING YOUR INCOME AND COSTING YOU BIG TIME BECAUSE OF IT!. IT IS NOT THE ENGINE FAULT!

HERE IS YOUR SCENARIO!!!..
REF: http://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?t...5#pid41315


NEXT: -- WHO DID THE DE-MANDATE PROGRAMING?... You need to start by assuming it is bad programming. More than 90%+ of those garbage delete programs that people use will destroy the engine every few years or so with those exact problems!... That is the most likely cause of why it failed the first time for most people in your perdiciment!.

Copy the program out of the ecm and send it to me for a proper review.

===========

do you think that engine would have had any of those subsequent issues if I had built (and programmed) it myself in my own driveway?.... OBVIOUSLY NOT!!!... AND IF ONE MAN CAN DO IT.. SO CAN ANOTHER!.

[Signature620]

Aside from poor workmanship, be aware that ISX liners don't just split...Not even if the protrusion isn't great. There have been a lot of piston pins coming out of Cummins lately with nicks and dents in them. Perhaps you got one and siezed a small end, damaging the liner as a result.

What happened the second time can only be determined once it's pulled apart.

[Bamaprez]

(05-08-2022 )Signature620 Wrote:  Aside from poor workmanship, be aware that ISX liners don't just split...Not even if the protrusion isn't great. There have been a lot of piston pins coming out of Cummins lately with nicks and dents in them. Perhaps you got one and siezed a small end, damaging the liner as a result.

What happened the second time can only be determined once it's pulled apart.

Thanks for the info I'll look at each and every one as it comes apart.

[Mikanic]

Wow as a tech I hope I never have to witness this. I agree with Rawze, this shop may not be as reputable as you think. They should of had the bores cut the first time, its a no brainer at this millage and with a new head.

I agree liners don't split because of protrusion, unless MAYBE your cut is crooked but you should of measured that and know its not crooked. I know paccar have issues with the block wearing more on 1 side than the other and it makes for a crooked counterbore and the result I seen is a blown headgasket not a cracked liner. But they have very different liners and I never heard of a cummins doing this. #5 cylinder is almost always the issue when they have a blown headgasket.

Bottom line I think you almost certainly have the same issue going on. I would be curious to know why they thought the rod and crank were good, what did they measure to find this out? Did they measure the horizontal diameter of the bores? Either way, you need to ask yourself tomorrow before spending all this time rebuilding this engine, can you still trust the parts in this engine? The block, the head, the rods or crank? Even if some of them are new you are gonna have to pay the shop alot of money just to make sure everything is still good and you are most likely gonna end up with one or the other thats worn out or bent. Can you trust this shop to find out if those parts are still in good shape?

What I'm getting to is that you may be at a point where you need to start fresh with a new used engine. Don't waste time rebuilding this engine. Its not gonna be much labor to swap the engine out and you will be faster back on the road. You are gonna have all the spare housing parts from the engine you currently have. It sucks, you just paid to get your engine rebuilt and now you'll have a used one but I feel like its your safest option. Just my opinion.

[Bamaprez]

Thanks for the response. To answer you first comment yes the counterbores were cut on first in-frame and rechecked the second time with number 5 needing recut the second time, split liner left a small mark that cleaned up with 2 thousands. The shop is standing behind everything parts and labor. we have talked about a "new" used engine and if we cant point to an obvious flaw in the block or parts they have agreed to fund the engine and engine swap. Luckly i have and old freightshaker that I've retired twice to keep my family funded. PS I did have the computer checked last summer by one of the Rawze.com recommended family shops. Awesome people and if I was closer I'd would have had them do the work. Thanks again to you, Rawze, and all the other contributors for the wealth of information available. We're all out here trying to make a living and this community has been very helpfull.

-

[Rawze]

If a liner got warped,split/cracked etc. so soon then it makes me wonder maybe they did not pull a hard vacuum on the coolant system after putting it all back together.. and it had an air pocket around that liner.. and overheated it when it was run in a hard pull for the first time. Seen that before too, and again.. it goes right back to incompetence of the repair shop. I have seen many, many repair shops that do not pull a proper vacuum on the coolant system on an ISX.. and get away with it hundreds of times... only for it to completely bite them in the arsse and destroy someone's engine on occasion, because they have convinced themselves that it is not necessary.

Also seen liners crack if some idiot did not measure the liners as they came out to see if the engine needed 150's or 152's. .. and if it needed 152's and some idiot put 150's in it then a liner will dance.. and possibly crack.. etc.. and then cause subsequent failures too.

- also what was the liner height set to after the counter-bore?.. and how accurate from one side to the other? ... that is another big mistake these shops always make on older engines.. Thinking that anything less than about 0.015" or so is ok.. and many of them will only set them to 0.010"... and this is a disaster waiting to happen.

Get some pictures of the failed components.. post them on here.. and by the way... if that liner moved at all and cause another head gasket failure.. then that cylinder head is no good now too. It is etched a few thousandths from the dancing liner and it cannot be re-used.


Like I said.. someone did something wrong!@.


Also you need to have that ecm programming looked at/ reviewed... never take it for granted. - Send me a copy of the programming for a review to rule it out... I don't care who did it. At least that will ensure it was not a cause towards a failure as well.

[Mikanic]

Was talking about this issue with my co-worker today, he has 10 times my experience rebuilding engines and he told me he seen a liner split at the bottom before and the issue was a plugged or broken cooling jet.

[Rawze]

(05-09-2022 )Mikanic Wrote:  Was talking about this issue with my co-worker today, he has 10 times my experience rebuilding engines and he told me he seen a liner split at the bottom before and the issue was a plugged or broken cooling jet.

I have seen cooling nozzles get clogged (usually by someone using aftermarket oil filters on oil changes), or sometimes damaged due to improper install due to carelessness. It usually leads to a cracked piston, but I would also suspect that it can cause a liner to maybe split. - Should be easy to find it if this was the problem.