ISX 600: Trouble in paradise

[Rocky]

Owner operator here. Almost two years ago I bought a low mileage (180k) Kenworth with a 2015 ISX 600. It was a single owner southern truck that had not once seen the snow and had just crossed the threshold of being under any kind of factory warranty. It's a beautiful truck and I got a great deal on it due to the age and therefore lack of warranty. I had one obvious plan in mind. The truck was a perfect candidate for "weight loss" surgery. I hated the idea of choking the motor with exhaust and being a W900; sounding like a pick-up truck.

I of course spent money (twice actually) to help in this regard and it has served me and my family well for the past nearly 200k miles. Until recently.

I've always known something wasn't quite right because with both the different shop "tunes", my truck sounds like a fighter jet about to take off when idling. The boost sits around 1.5 PSI. I am also lucky to see 5+ mpg loaded or 6 mpg empty; although it was not much better before surgery. So I lost what fuel economy I did have and if anything; as well as some performance. It is built for 100k+ hauling and has a 3:73 rear end with 600 factory hp, so it has plenty of power. Fuel economy isn't exactly its purpose .

A month ago the EGR cooler up pipe snapped near the cooler, so I replaced it. The next load out, the boot connected to it split. I replaced it. I've noticed over the past few weeks that my oil temperature is getting awfully close to the 250 f mark. I run full synthetic so I'm not concerned about oil damage.

This month I've run an overhead and performed a cylinder test via Cummings Insite trying to track down a vibration or "ruff" idle. I used the Rawze method of idling the motor with a single cylinder and repeating for all six. All cylinders “fire” and sound similar. I have a new dampener, IMAP, oil temp, and oil pressure sensors waiting at the house to install on my next home time.

What is my next theoretical step? Obtain CT and adjust variables based on recommendations? Who's? ISX15 parameters? The old "If you want it done right..." saying is truer more now than ever these days and I am running low on money and options in the current “climate”. Originally I thought "let the guys who do it everyday take care of it". How naïve of me.
   

[Bengy88]

(08-14-2022 )Rocky Wrote:  ...
The truck was a perfect candidate for "weight loss" surgery. I hated the idea of choking the motor with exhaust and being a W900; sounding like a pick-up truck.

I of course spent money (twice actually) to help in this regard and it has served me and my family well for the past nearly 200k miles. Until recently.

I've always known something wasn't quite right because with both the different shop "tunes", my truck sounds like a fighter jet about to take off when idling. The boost sits around 1.5 PSI. I am also lucky to see 5+ mpg loaded or 6 mpg empty; although it was not much better before surgery. So I lost what fuel economy I did have and if anything; as well as some performance.
...
What is my next theoretical step? Obtain CT and adjust variables based on recommendations? Who's? ISX15 parameters? The old "If you want it done right..." saying is truer more now than ever these days and I am running low on money and options in the current “climate”. Originally I thought "let the guys who do it everyday take care of it". How naïve of me.

I would bet my left nut that your truck is stuck in scr warmup, the timing is double what it should be, turbo maps are probably jacked, and it’s probably a file that someone bought from one of the “big name tuners” or copied from someone else’s truck. the last guy I had doing my tuning did this to ALOT of my customers trucks. in my opinion your truck needs to be set back to stock and then someone that knows what they are doing to properly tune your truck.

{part of post blocked by Rawze}

are too lazy to disable/turn off the components instead of just blocking codes then they are too lazy to properly tune an engine!!!

[Rawze]

(08-14-2022 )Rocky Wrote:  ...
The truck was a perfect candidate for "weight loss" surgery. I hated the idea of choking the motor with exhaust and being a W900; sounding like a pick-up truck.

I of course spent money (twice actually) to help in this regard and it has served me and my family well for the past nearly 200k miles. Until recently.

I've always known something wasn't quite right because with both the different shop "tunes", my truck sounds like a fighter jet about to take off when idling. The boost sits around 1.5 PSI. I am also lucky to see 5+ mpg loaded or 6 mpg empty; although it was not much better before surgery. So I lost what fuel economy I did have and if anything; as well as some performance.
...
What is my next theoretical step? Obtain CT and adjust variables based on recommendations? Who's? ISX15 parameters? The old "If you want it done right..." saying is truer more now than ever these days and I am running low on money and options in the current “climate”. Originally I thought "let the guys who do it everyday take care of it". How naïve of me.

First of all ...
Assume your programming is bad. .. MOST ALL (more than 90% that I review each year for people) de-mandate programming for these engines is horrible. MOST delete programming severely shortens the engine life internally by 50% or more all while the truck owner swears it seems to run ok.

If you have been driving that thing with heavy weights and only getting 5 mpg, pushing it hard it seems, then you need to assume that a lot of damage has already been done by that bad programming... I know that I would.

It is headed in the fast lane towards an inframe by a failed head gasket + dropped liner if that programming is not exactly right. That is its future. It takes anywhere form 80k miles to sometimes 300k+ miles or so maybe a bit more.. maybe a bit less depends on how hard the engine is worked. That is why I say bad programming cuts engine life in half or less. It usually takes a few years for the real problems to show up, all while the truck owner/driver swears that some moron "must have done a good job".

You mentioned that you gave your moneys away to 2 different places/people. -= Sad part about that is the reality of it all. You could have taken it to 50, maybe even 100+ people or places and gotten the same horrible variation of the same s$it programming. This is because all those clowns out there doing this stuffs hang out on those Auto./Truck tuning (or delete) forums, trading and, copying, and circulating their complete garbage, all while swearing that their s$it don't stink, all swearing that "they are the best" ..etc.etc.et.. bla... bla.. bla.. and you could waste tens of thousands of $$$ paying people to "get it right"... only to end up on here and me review it, telling you that it was absolute garbage!!. That is actually how bad the whole "custom tuning" really is in the world of Automotive and trucking alike. It is the ignorant leading the blind... all of them charging big bucks for their snake oil trash that is not fit to put into a lawn mower, nonetheless a $40,000 commercial engine.


-=====

NEXT: you say you pull above 100k+ loads.. but then you say you have 3:70 rears. - This makes little to no sense.. those rears are TOO TALL for those kinds of loads and will over-work the h#ell out of that engine up every single hill. Whoever spec'd that truck was apparently clueless!. The Tallest it should have been spec'd with was maybe a set of 3.90's... or better yet, a set of 4.11's for 100k+ loads.. and 4.36's would have been even more appropriate to let the engine not be tortured. It sounds to me like it needs an investment in a better set of rears to alleviate over-working the engine all the time to prevent shortening its life and so that better RPM ranges for those heavy weights can be used.

Speaking of RPM... Next, I suspect that you will be telling me that you drive it mostly below 1500 rpm too.. This is even more torture!. The isx needs to be above 1500+ to 1900 rpm range at all times while someone is on the throttle hard and pulling any kind of hills, weight etc... For maximum longevity... Not faster speeds.. But lower gearing and higher rpm ranges. The ISX will last its longest at 1650~ish while pulling than it will at any rpm lower than 1500.

=============

Back to your original issues...

That turbo should not be making boost while sitting there like that. That is a sign that it is stuck trying to warm up a missing/hollowed out DPF canister ... like most (more than 90% or all deltes) that I review have issue with... choking the exhaust, making lower then normal fuel mileage, and torturing the pistons/liners in the block.

First things first though... Copy the program out of the ecm (using the Calterm software) and e-mail it to me for a proper review so that you will know the actual quality and/or harm that program may be doing to the guts of the engine. You should be worried like h#ell at this point about the health of your engine from running it for 2+ years already on bad programming. I hope you have the moneys saved up for the likely inframe in its near future due to head gasket failure, as it sounds like at this point, it is already on borrowed time. We see it every day around here.

I know this is not the words that most people want to hear.. but this is the reality of trucking and these de-mandate programs running around out there.

[Bengy88]

If you need help pulling your file just shoot me a pm and I can help you get that pulled from your ecm tonight no charge. You just need your pc and connector

[Rocky]

(08-15-2022 )Rawze Wrote:  ...
Back to your original issues...

That turbo should not be making boost while sitting there like that. That is a sign that it is stuck trying to warm up a missing/hollowed out DPF canister ... like most (more than 90% or all deltes) that I review have issue with... choking the exhaust, making lower then normal fuel mileage, and torturing the pistons/liners in the block.

First things first though... Copy the program out of the ecm (using the Calterm software) and e-mail it to me for a proper review so that you will know the actual quality and/or harm that program may be doing to the guts of the engine. You should be worried like h#ell at this point about the health of your engine from running it for 2+ years already on bad programming. I hope you have the moneys saved up for the likely inframe in its near future due to head gasket failure, as it sounds like at this point, it is already on borrowed time. We see it every day around here.

Thank you for the response. The truck has a 3:73 rear end, 46k tandem drives, and a 14.6k steer axle, eight bag rear suspension, heavy duty drive line, front disc brakes, etc. By no means heavy haul but paired with a triple axle RGN is a good combination. I'm still in the market for that RGN and have yet to pull over 80k with this truck. I pull van hazmat. I split my shifts at 1700 down to 1500 generally. 70 mph sits the engine just under 1600 RPM.

I've had a turbo actuator code pop up in two separate occasions over the past couple years but they went away on their own. At the beginning of this year my coolant was black from oil so I had the oil cooler, transmission cooler, and reservoir replaced.

No pyro, straight piped, and EGR unplugged. I'm curious about patching into the temperature sensor already installed in the exhaust pipe leaving the turbo to the stacks

[Rocky]

(08-14-2022 )Bengy88 Wrote:  

(08-14-2022 )Rocky Wrote:  ...
The truck was a perfect candidate for "weight loss" surgery. I hated the idea of choking the motor with exhaust and being a W900; sounding like a pick-up truck.

I of course spent money (twice actually) to help in this regard and it has served me and my family well for the past nearly 200k miles. Until recently.

I've always known something wasn't quite right because with both the different shop "tunes", my truck sounds like a fighter jet about to take off when idling. The boost sits around 1.5 PSI. I am also lucky to see 5+ mpg loaded or 6 mpg empty; although it was not much better before surgery. So I lost what fuel economy I did have and if anything; as well as some performance.
...
What is my next theoretical step? Obtain CT and adjust variables based on recommendations? Who's? ISX15 parameters? The old "If you want it done right..." saying is truer more now than ever these days and I am running low on money and options in the current “climate”. Originally I thought "let the guys who do it everyday take care of it". How naïve of me.

I would bet my left nut that your truck is stuck in scr warmup, the timing is double what it should be, turbo maps are probably jacked, and it’s probably a file that someone bought from one of the “big name tuners” or copied from someone else’s truck. the last guy I had doing my tuning did this to ALOT of my customers trucks. in my opinion your truck needs to be set back to stock and then someone that knows what they are doing to properly tune your truck.

{part of post blocked by Rawze}

are too lazy to disable/turn off the components instead of just blocking codes then they are too lazy to properly tune an engine!!!

I completely agree with that and that is hopefully the game plan. I'm thinking I need to take a deep dive into it, understand it for the most part, and to be self sufficient going forward

[Bengy88]

I respect you if you want to understand it. I will warn you it’s a long ass road, you have to be patient, you have to listen hard, you will have many nights of headaches, you have to know the right questions to ask and how to ask them, you have to take lots and lots of notes. I have been busting my ass to learn to do this for a while now and I don’t even have the ballz to play with some of the very important stuff that you need adjusted and fixed….before this truck sees a highway again. It’s a ticking timebomb man. When you see an engine literally explode from a bad tune then you will completely grasp how important it is to never run one of these bullshit tunes down the highway.

[Mr Hagg]

Also if egr pipe blew off you need to block off exhaust in front of egr cooler.... i see that alot...

[Rawze]

I Was sent the file from this persons truck today. Here is what I see at a glance...

* No proper engine mode control was done. This causes the engine to try to warm up the DPF, SRC, ETC... perpetually, because it can never satisfy this condition, it using the turbo to choke the the exhaust + creating excessive internal friction on the cylinders all the time... shortening the engine life and creating excess friction by a lot. - Results are typically higher than normal oil temps.. lower then normal fuel mileage, over-boosting turbo, etc.etc.etc.


* Protection fuel limiters are still in place. The engine is not able to make full power/torque.

* DPF Restriction test not shut off properly.

* Excess Soot derate protection not shut off properly + Shutdown Protection for excess soot is still in place. The engine is still able to unpredictably shut down over this at some point in its future.

* Engine is still assuming+requesting EGR gas is going into the intake. The engine will have the wrong fuel-air-mix, too far advanced injection timing, etc. This is harmful / shortens engine life.

* injection timing is set too high and moderately harmful to the engine. Can cause a piston to crack / shortens engine life.

* The fuel-air-mix is set too lean and is harmful to a deleted engine.

* the turbo has been set waay to high for a W900. Will over-spool and over-boost the engine causing damage to the cylinders. Can cause crack in head, crack in piston, is harmful, causes too much friction in engine+ higher then normal oil temps.

* engine brake was screwed with. This is an absolute NO-NO!... and can cause the engine to drop a valve at HIGH RPM and high Engine brake conditions.


* ALL EACD fall-back emissions control is still active. This will cause unstable power, cause injection timning and other things to be screweed with in attempts of conform to fall-back emissions standards.

* Alpha settings are incomplete. The engine is jumping into protections and derating at times.

* sensors not shut off properly for... -= Just bad, incomplete programming on someone's part ...
-DPF inlet temp. not shut off properly.
-DPF outlet temp. not shut off properly.
-DPF outlet Pressure not shut off properly.
-DPF Delta-P. not shut off properly.
-DPF outlet pressure. not shut off properly.
-Doser injector not shut off properly.
-SCR inlet temp. not shut off properly.
-SCR outlet temp. not shut off properly.
-DEF pump not shut off properly.
-DEF Tank Level not shut off properly.
-DEF Tank Temp not shut off properly.
-DEF Tank Heater/Line heater not shut off properly.
-DOC inlet temp. not shut off properly.
-DOC outlet temp. not shut off properly.
-CCP sensor not shut off properly.
-IAT not shut off properly.


===============

- It looks to be the typical hack-n-slash where someone disconnects things and assumes the ECM has magical fairy dust inside itself to fix everything for them. Its terrible and moderately harmful to the engine. This person will be lucky if they do not need an inframe within the next year or so, especially if this thing has been run hard, after running it for 2+ years with this horrible, engine-eating program for so long.

Welcome to the bad delete collection. You are today's official winner.
ref: http://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?t...5#pid13255

truly sad indeed.