ISX Horsepower/Torque setting

[TBraun]

First of all, I'm new here and thank you for the invitation allowing me to join. My story is a bit lengthy in order to understand my question. I'm interested in buying a 2000 International 9900ix with a 565 ISX in it. It is of course all pre emissions. They gentlemen who owns it is a owner operator who is retiring, he purchased the truck new and actually ordered the truck according to his specifications. The truck, as a whole, appears to have been taken very good care of. He has 22 years of repair documentation. Now, moving on to my question. When the gentleman ordered the truck he said he opted against the 600 hp setting dues to the additional 15k in upgrades needed for the drivetrain. The current drivetrain was sufficient for 565 hp. After he told me that he continued to talk about the truck and told me about a time when the engine started running rough. This was not too long after he purchased it new. He said to fix that problem they removed a bunch of horsepower and torque through programming. I said, "Really, did they ever reflash the original program or horsepower settings" He said "no". I asked him "what horsepower is your truck"? He said "I'm not sure but the torque is set at 1850 at 1200 rpm". I asked how he knew that. He said "because that's what is on engine date plate". I said, "well yeah but you said the ecm was reprogrammed....". I think it's probably clear where I'm going with this. Question #1, Can I find out what the horsepower/torque settings are currently without hooking up to the truck? I pulled engine serial number up on Cummins QuickServe and can see the ecm code, but what do I do with it and would that be the latest flash in the ecm? Question #2, he said he opted against the 600 hp flash. Can I have the 600 hp flash loaded in the ecm if I choose to? I have the CPL, I'm lead to believe the CPL would support 600 hp and he just decided against it. Would that be true. Question #3, What were the torque settings offered on the 600 hp flash. He said it shows 1850 on the data plate for the 565, Did they offer 2050 on the 600 back in 2000? Or was it still 1850? I guess I have more than 3 questions...I would sure appreciate and help with this. The truck is 900 miles away and I'd sure like to know what my options are before I decide to go look at it. Thanks.

[Bengy88]

It sounds to me like he let a stealership that was clueless feed him a long line of bullshit. As stated over and over on this forum dealership training only teaches you enough to get by, (I’ve worked for them and that’s exactly what they do) on rare occasions you find one mechanic that won’t settle with just what they are taught. Not to mention the guy was probably talking to a salesman….. who’s job is to sell, get where I’m going? Send me a pm with some contact info and I’ll do my best to help you out there is more to your questions than you are asking.

[tree98]

The ISX CM570 came out in 2001. You say this truck is a 2000, so are we talking about an N14 here?

You need the cummins insite program and an inline adapter to be able to see what program is in the ECM currently and if it matches the program called for on the data plate.

If you post what program is in it we can tell you what hp/torque it is

[TBraun]

(09-08-2022 )tree98 Wrote:  The ISX CM570 came out in 2001. You say this truck is a 2000, so are we talking about an N14 here?

You need the cummins insite program and an inline adapter to be able to see what program is in the ECM currently and if it matches the program called for on the data plate.

If you post what program is in it we can tell you what hp/torque it is

This is not an N14, it is a CM570. I know what your saying about the year difference and I don't have a good answer for that. Maybe the truck is titled as a 2000 and it's actually a 2001, I don't know. Engine serial number is 014005252 and that's off the truck build sheet off International ISIS. CPL is 2834, ECM Code is N10272t5. (not sure that number is helpful for anything). All these numbers come off Cummins QuickServe for that engine serial number.

[TBraun]

(09-08-2022 )Bengy88 Wrote:  It sounds to me like he let a stealership that was clueless feed him a long line of bullshit. As stated over and over on this forum dealership training only teaches you enough to get by, (I’ve worked for them and that’s exactly what they do) on rare occasions you find one mechanic that won’t settle with just what they are taught. Not to mention the guy was probably talking to a salesman….. who’s job is to sell, get where I’m going? Send me a pm with some contact info and I’ll do my best to help you out there is more to your questions than you are asking.

I'm not so much concerned about what happened in the past. The way I understand this gentleman, this happened when the engine was still under warranty. So it's been quite some time ago. He said it had plenty of power for him even after they did what they did. I'm just trying to figure out, if it's short on power for what I do, what will I have to do to increase. I don't want to have to start changing hard parts. I'm not looking for anything crazy, 600 would be great. I'm coming from a pre-emissions 12.7 Detroit that I did a full rebuild on with internal parts to get 625 to the wheels and 2200 torque. Anyone who says the 12.7 was just a fleet engine with no low end grunt, this thing would make them eat there words. I was very impressed with the performance, there was no quit in it. Unfortunately, that truck was involved in an accident ad is no longer on the road. Which is why I'm looking for a truck.

[marek4792]

a pre 2000 ISX CM570 is also known as a Signature Series and/or ISX600. I've seen a couple 98 engine year CM570's floating around the interwebs but today it's like finding a unicorn..

[Bengy88]

Quoting a very wise man from this forum “horsepower doesn’t hurt an engine, torque does”. Yes you can safely make that engine pull down hells gates. What you have to do is get a laptop hooked to it and contact the right people. There are a few floating around here.

[Rawze]

(09-08-2022 )TBraun Wrote:  ... a pre-emissions 12.7 Detroit that I did a full rebuild on with internal parts to get 625 to the wheels and 2200 torque. Anyone who says the 12.7 was just a fleet engine with no low end grunt
...

JUST A WARNING ...

First and foremost!!!.... And isx is not a detroit!!!... It is not a cat.. It is a red-headed step-child with shorter connecting rods and a different design that does not like low-end (high) torque very much.

Putting more than above 1850 torque in an isx = almost always shortening its life by about 400k miles. It does not matter what the red engine maker claims it can do. It goes from a million mile engine to a 600k mile engine.

And a touting about ridiculous 2200+ ft.lbs would mean spending about $25,000+ about every 3 years or so for an ISX.

That is not place to be, or proper treatment of one at all. There is only a costly greif waiting at the end of that road... and all for what?.. so that someone can brag about it?. -= This forum has no place for someone who would want to do such things, as there is no benefit to long term profit for "having big power".

If someone puts 2050 (or more) torque in it then they can simply plan on spending about $25,000+ dollars on rebuilding it every 5 or 6 years, It is as simple as that.

So if you are looking for big power and torque numbers, then you have purchased the wrong piece of equipment!.

... and if 550 or 600/1850 is not enough for your operations.. THEN THE TRUCK IS GEARED WRONG!! for its application. Re-gearing it for its intended applications would make it pull much better, and be a far cheaper solution in the end... and NOT trying to squeeze more out of the most expensive thing in the drive-line (the engine).

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So I say ... Take your pick.. Do you want something that can make a profit with oin todays modern world of more-expensive trucking? ... Or something that someone can be a complete idiot with, to brag about, and drive straight it into the ground!@?... Because if it is the latter.. You are on the wrong forum!

This forum is about doing things right .. And doing things that yield better/long term profits... So ... Sorry, but we do not help people who are power-hungry idiots with their equipment that want do to stupid things to it.

[Rawze]

(09-08-2022 )TBraun Wrote:  ...Engine serial number is 014005252
...
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CPL is 2834
...
...
ECM Code is N10272t5
...

That engine ser# does not seem to be valid.

Also, the program N10272 is no longer available on cummins website.

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like others said. Connect the Insite software to it and see what is program is actually in it.