isx 871 no start

[towingdiesels58601]

I have an cm871 that will not start, the driver fueled up 6 miles before the turbo grenaded climbing a hill, we towed it in, replaced the turbo and it would not start.

... it is a w900 that i bought about a year ago with de-mandated programming. It had a aftermarket turbo and manifold, ran fine for the past year with occasional hard starting spurts.

We began diagnosing the truck, mechanics said it had a code for low fuel pressure.

We replaced the high pressure fuel pump and the lift pump, primed attempt start nothing.

We removed the fuel manifold and checked for debris replaced pressure regulators and anti-drainback valve.

Still, no start.

We removed ecm and installed on another truck, the other truck ran fine.

We swapped the fuel and timing actuators onto another truck, and that truck runs with the actuators.

We verified that the ecm has all powers and grounds, ignition power and that the wiring harness has good continuity to the fuel and timing actuators.

We verified the cam timing by pinning the crank and sliding the timing wedges in against the cams.

We have verified the cam and crank position sensors are reading and that the tone rings are not loose or missing teeth.

We have verified fuel pressure using insight, we have verified that the engine rpm while cranking exceeds 150rpm required to start.

We have verified that the engine has compression.

The engine will run on ether only until we quit giving it ether.

We removed injector #1 and verified we are getting fuel from the passage in the head, we also looked at the top of the piston to verify it looks alright not broken.

I believe we have done everything that quickserve suggests and then some.

If I am missing any diagnostic tests I would like to know. We may have done tests that I forgot to mention.

Forgive me as the list is long. Any assistance is greatly appreciated.

[Rawze]

First of all, If that engine has been butchered as badly as you say .. with an after-garbage, non-VGT turbo and trash-can delete tuning.. then what do you expect?. - Progressive damage is what you get when some idiots do back-woods, redneck, hack job, mods and tuning. the engine is likely not worth 3 cents in that condition.

(Someone saw you coming, and took you for what you were worth) ...
If you had done even a little bit of research, then you would have likely realized that you should have never bought into that trash-can crap of a disaster, hacked, and abused into oblivion engine/truck to begin with. That, or at least invested in getting it back right on purchase.

So ... first thing is to start sourcing the parts to PUT BACK THAT OEM VG TURBO, manifold, etc!!! ... and GET THAT TRASH CAN DELETE PROGRAMMING OUT OF THAT ECM and replace it with something safe and reliable. At least then, the engine will stop eating its own guts out... if it is not already too late.

Copy the program from the ecm and e-mail it to me for a review of what was done in there, and then from that point, steps can be made towards straightening out the redneck garbage... engine running or not,.. that has to be fixed... and should have been when you got it, and not a year+ later after excessive wear and possible internal damage has been set in.
info: https://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?...5#pid72945

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garbage-can mods and s$itty delete, engine killing programming aside ...

As far as the no-start...

#1. ... While cranking.. after several seconds,.. is the oil pressure gauge in the dash showing a few psi above zero?.

#2. ... With the Insite software connected,... what is the fuel pressure roughly showing while cranking?

#3. ... is it cranking over fast, like new batteries,.. or is it a bit sluggish?.

#4. With the headlights on,.. do they dim out real bad while cranking, or only go slightly dim?.

#5. Has anyone bothered to remove the guts from the fuel shutoff solenoid, and re-install its housing, so that it cannot block fuel??.

-- I.E.> Start with the obvious first.

[Nostalgic]

(Yesterday )Rawze Wrote:  #5. Has anyone bothered to remove the guts from the fuel shutoff solenoid, and re-install it, so that it cannot block fuel??.

Thanks for this reminder. When I was reading the post, I never even thought of the shutoff solenoid.

[towingdiesels58601]

As far as the de-mandated junk I agree I should have done better due-diligence to make sure I didn't end up with a hack job of a truck such as this. Unfortunately I flew a driver to inspect the truck and make the call about condition, I was more concerned with the mounted equipment on the truck than the engine at the time. Given the current situation that was a mistake considering that the mounted equipment does not operate if the truck does not run. I will work on getting a copy of the file to you for review I am not familiar with calterm but I will follow the info you provided and get it to you.

To answer your questions,
#1 the gauge and insight both read oil pressure when cranked for more than a few seconds.
#2 the fuel pressure reads 14 psi with key on and 165 psi when cranking.
#3 it cranks over at a normal speed insight registers the speed of greatly than 150 rpms which I read is the minimum on quickserve, the truck has new batteries and we are maintain them with a charger due to the amount of cranking and tests we have run.
#4 the headlights dim slightly when cranking, also to mention insight stays connected and lift pump runs during cranking.
#5 yes we gutted the fuel shutoff solenoid out and that didn't make a difference.

We have attempted removing the turbo and cranking to verify we don't have a blockage it the air passages.

when we connect on the port on the bottom of the ifsm behind the actuators with a mechanical gauge we get a lot of fluttering in the gauge.

[Rawze]

Is fuel spraying out at the compu-check port on the back side of the gear pump with the electric lift pump is running?... is there air in it as well?.

Are you sure no one has swapped the metering and timing solenoids?.

Has anyone pressurized the fuel tanks to 5 psi and let it sit a few hours... ensured there are no suction fuel line leaks, places the pick-up lines can suck air?.

Any red engine light in the dash?.... Also ... back up the bad delete in it,.. and then flash it with a fresh factory program that belongs to the engine (according to ser#). For all anyone knows,.. some yahoo might have blocked a fault code and hiding the engine shutdown lamp from being active.

Has anyone bothered to see if the metering and timing actuators are firing?, using a pick-up coil on an oscilliscope?.

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I have seen plenty of CM871,s with no-start issues in the past. ... they are notorious for...

>> Sucking too much air after a fuel filter or davco filter changed. (pressurize fuel tanks to 5 psi, let sit for several hours).

>> Cracked pick-up tube in fuel tank. (pressurize fuel tanks to 5 psi, put hose into bucket at compucheck port,.. see if fuel is bubbly.


>> The gear pump having a snapped shaft internally, not making the fuel pressure to activate the solenoids. - Can be checked for by ensuring the fuel pressure is above 100+ psi while cranking.

>> ECM going bad.. very common if it is more than 8+ years old,. or has been purchased anywhere but a certified OEM facility. 870,871 ecm is notorious for getting flaky, especially if there is too much engine vibrations .. due to bad delete, or crank shaft damper not challenged at 500k intervals. Swapping it to another truck can fool you too... as it might start working again temporarily due to it being banged around. - Can be tested by banging ecm it while electric lift pump is running,.. see if it cuts in and out... and/or by checking if oil pressure in dash goes slightly above zero while cranking for several seconds.

>> Some idiot swapped metering and timing actuators, or some other mistake when working on the engine.

>> starts and stalls right out... won;t stay running. - turbo locked up at 100% closed, engine exhaust cannot breathe. Open up a gap between the manifold to the turbo.. see if it runs.

>> fuel shutoff solenoid has gone bad, not allowing fuel. - Removing its guts and installing the housing will bypass it.

>> can/crank position sensor one or both not reading, gone bad. - Insite shows crank/cam sensor errors.

>> A shut down is active for various reasons. Can be seen in Insite.. that is, if some idiot has not blocked the faults for it (bad deletes are notorious for blocking.hiding faults, making it very hard to troubleshoot issues).

>> engine is just a bit too sluggish to crank. Excessive carbon packed rings, alternator going bad, etc... . - Turn engine by hand w wrench and see if its harder to turn with a wrench vs. other ISX's.

>> An injector has blown out, is pushing compression backwards thru the fuel system. - Can be checked with an injector leakage tests.. ref: https://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?...8#pid67948

>> One or more Overhead cams has slipped badly, or is not turning due to gear train issues.

>> Some complete idiot has backed off all the injector rockers, because they thought it should be adjusted like the old big-cams of yester-year. - I have seen this more than a few times over the years.

>> Someone swapping the lines off the back side of the gear pump on a common rail engine after a fuel pump replacement. Never seen this happen on a CM870/871 though.

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also note... it takes more than 2 rounds of cranking for 30 seconds each for the fuel system to bleed out and fire the engine up after a rebuild, or someone has had the fuel system apart. This after bleeding it, running lift pump several rounds.. and opening up the compucheck ports to bleed air as well.
here is a fine example of a first crank on rebuild engine after everything has been all apart ...
ref: https://rawze.com/forums/showthread.php?...1#pid27361


-=== that is what i got off the top of my head.. I might have missed something.. but take your pick.