VG turbo improvements?

[dhirocz]

I'm fortunate that not only does my truck appear to have had a recent turbo installed before I bought it, but I have another low mile turbo/actuator at the house.

I have no reason to doubt the stock turbo's capability. But I'm all about improving reliability.

Would it hurt running a small oil cooler in line before it feeds the turbo?

Any thoughts on having my turbo jet hot coated inside and out to help control heat and improve efficiency? What about a turbo sock?

I used to port cylinder heads as a hobby. Anyone clean up the casting internally with a die grinder? I was also curious if anyone has tried cleaning up( not porting) the intake to make it harder for soot to build up?

Anyone using an air filter sock over their primary filter?

and yes, I'll be putting an air shutoff inline with my turbo. Just in case.

[Marajin]

(11-18-2016 )dhirocz Wrote:  I'm fortunate that not only does my truck appear to have had a recent turbo installed before I bought it, but I have another low mile turbo/actuator at the house.

I have no reason to doubt the stock turbo's capability. But I'm all about improving reliability.

Would it hurt running a small oil cooler in line before it feeds the turbo?

Any thoughts on having my turbo jet hot coated inside and out to help control heat and improve efficiency? What about a turbo sock?

I used to port cylinder heads as a hobby. Anyone clean up the casting internally with a die grinder? I was also curious if anyone has tried cleaning up( not porting) the intake to make it harder for soot to build up?

Anyone using an air filter sock over their primary filter?

and yes, I'll be putting an air shutoff inline with my turbo. Just in case.

One of the restrictions is the exit port of the cold side of the turbo. They can be polished, along with the elbow pipe for slight improvements. I did this to my own truck a while back. there is also a flat spot, and/or hump that can be ground down a bit in the output pipe as it transitions away from the billet wheel on the face side. I ground that out as well on mine with a dremel. it took a few hours to do all of it. Truck seemed to have picked up 0.2-0.3 mpg form it but it is close to tell for absolute sure.

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polishing the exhaust manifold, etc. on the hot side does absolutely nothing whatsoever to them. After-market manifolds that look like they have improved flow at first glance appear they would seriously improve things,.. but they do nothing whatsoever measurable at all. The factory manifold can handle flow for more than 900 HP without any improvable resistive heat buildup/flow restrictions already on them. -- been there and seen that more than a few times.

Turbo sock,.. maybe,.. might mot be good for trapped heat tho. manifold wrap would be far more effective I thnk. You might see a few tenths there if your lucky, but the problem is that more heat will xfer to the face of the turbo, and it would counter it, as temps into the CAC would be higher, and the intake air more expanded on that side of things.

The more correct thing to do is to wrap as much of exhaust piping as possible starting at the back of the turbo + the manifold itself. This would yield measurable results for sure. I have done this on mine, and the inside of the cab of the truck runs much much cooler too. the floor does not get hot any more.

External Oil cooler before the turbo? -- I would normally agree with that one, but the thicker, lower temp oil will slow it down and might cause some resistance? unsire. As well, it is not the billet/shaft that wears out on them,.. but the VG ring and arm/non-lubricated parts. Slightly higher viscosity oil works better than cooling it off, and benefits the whole engine to boot. One thing that would help though, is to cool the return oil back to the sump, but turbo's are particularly vulnerable to return oil restrictions, and it would be difficult to get a zero-restriction cooler on the return side without it being very large piping. -- Thought about that one too in the past. I guess the engine oil cooler keeps up just fine, so there is no money or gain to such a thing long term. - Perhaps a copper drain "curley-pipe" with fins like you see on air compressors the same diameter? -- That might improve it a bit without restriction.

As far as the soot buildup, turbo heat, oil temps, yadda yadda yadda,.. all of those problems are solved with MM-2 in one (lower turbo temps, lower exhaust temps, lower oil temps due to reduced internal engine friction, no more soot, etc.), so it is a mute point. Wasting your time trying to improve them with all the EGR and stock/ factory fuel-restricting programming in them will only make the EGR system manager, intake charge flow manager, and emissions manager see the increased flow and improvements and compensate for it. The factory programming in all modern engines (called the alpha algorithm) dictates that long term, the engine should be in a certain ball-park for fuel efficiency. It compensates by retarding timing and everything else over time to correct it, so your fighting that computer all the way if unless you MM it (Literally the only tune on the planet for ISX that removes the alpha all together 100% correctly along with all th other soot-sucking crap ) and axe that factory programming.

-- There is a reason why people say they do stuff like that to improve their factory programmed engines, only for a couple months later, it has slowly fallen right back where it was in efficiency. You can thank "Mr. Epa" and his middle-east loving fuel sucking regulations for that one. it has been in every ECM on the planet since the late 90's.

Lastly,.. if someone is leaving it it stock and going to try all that stuff,.. thier brain should ba first on GETTING ALL THE SOOT OUT OF THE ENGINE OIL!!! if they have not done so yet. - It is the biggest killer of these newer engine by far, including shortening the turbo lifespan. Cummins says 6-lbs of it goes into the oil every 45,000 miles. -- I.E> A bypass filter is a MUST!,.. yet everyone seems to ignore this fact on them like it is no big deal,.. then cries when their engine is worn to the bone, cams chewed up, etc. in half its lifespan.

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many automobiles and small diesel engines have lots of internal restrictions, etc. and that makes for all the things you are referring to, but that kind of thinking and effort has a lot less merit on an industrial engine designed from the ground up for slight improvements. They aren't too bad off mechanically, because they do compete in the market for improved efficiency long term already. -- Are there things that can be improved on them? -- Sure thing,.. but most of it is inside the computer, as it is now 60+% of what makes that engine run and how well it does/ or can achieve. The computer has the final say at the end of the day, so that is the first battle to overcome long before mechanical "tweaking", otherwise, you are only pissing up wind. Solve that one, and the soot will go away, etc. and when you tweak on something, it will not be compensated for by Mr.Epa's special hidden programming that is designed to keep the oil companies happy.

That is just my own take on it any ways.

[dhirocz]

You make some good points. Already have started to inquire about the tuning.

Already have a bypass filter installed and am running oil changes every 15k to help flush soot. Tomorrow I'll be doing more of the same. Soot is alot like liquid sandpaper in a way. I didn't mention it because I've already been working that angle.

Consider these thoughts as random thoughts and ideas that have flown through my head this week. Brainstorming. Like I said, I'm all about efficiency and reliability on this. I'm just looking at things from several different angles at the moment. I'm just thinking about them again as I settle in for my 34.

I might pull apart my other turbo so I can work that one during my 34 and send it in for coating while I'm out next week.

[Rig Wrench]

I know companies like Fleece Performance make parts like wheels and controllers for the smaller vgt's, the he351 and he400 I believe. I'm gonna look into seein if they do anything for the others as well

[Rawze]

(11-19-2016 )Rig Wrench Wrote:  I know companies like Fleece Performance make parts like wheels and controllers for the smaller vgt's, the he351 and he400 I believe. I'm gonna look into seein if they do anything for the others as well

I worked with a company in NZ that tried like hell to improve the billet of the Holset for the ISX. They seriously knew what they were doing, and I consulted with them a bit on it,... in the end, the improvement margin was so incredibly narrow that is was not even worth the effort of having one made. the housing on the other hand,.. yes can be improved slightly. it is cast.

No one has beaten the holset in several years for efficiency, size for size. Not even Borg-Werner comes close.

[trucklogger2]

I'm not promoting them but BD diesel in Abbottsford bc addresses the ring and arm on their rebuilts and sells them for around $900 us.

[RPM1]

Holset makes the turbos for the Ferrari f1 team , allot of r an d going on there

[T680]

Than,is not the best cause Ferrari is third this year and not winning in many more...

Not related,but fun to say in hindsight is::::

Enzo's comments about the British engineers long ago...correlate with somebody's comments and calling working people names in politics today...

[Jarhead79]

After thought, but if best mpg is before 20# boost can the turbo be programmed to stay below 20# boost at full load throttle? I have not got any software as yet. But I am trying to grasp things a bit before I think of looking into the ecm stuff.