Carbon Cleaning with Walnut Blasting

[biscuits and gravy]

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My question is: Could this be adapted for the ISX engine or other diesel engines?

What do you guys think about it? The walnut shells are soft and will not harm the metal.

[Brock]

I asked this same question on here a year ago and Noone but me liked the idea.

Rawze figured there would be no significant mpg gain to justify the risk.

I still personally believe it would give you gains but have not tried it. The walnut hull is good as it will just burn away if any makes it past the valves. My only concern would be maybe accelerating valve oil leakage..... maybe the soot was plugging it up from leaking.

Another of rawzes concerns was maybe you miss a chunk of carbon in there and it gets caught in the valves.... that thought right there is why I haven't.

[Texasdude74]

Shooting an organic, pulp substance into my engine under air pressure doesn't sound like something I'd feel like doing on any given weekend.
But, for the sake of a mental exercise.

How would you get a straight line of sight to the intake valves on an ISX?

Are these engines really having much of a problem with filthy valves in the first place? I know there's been a lot of issues with carbon building up on rings and polishing liners and such.

I'd think any sort of media blasting would best be used for cleaning egr valves, intake tubing and a lot of the emissions stuff.

[Rawze]

You mentioned "The engineers over at BMW have figured out away" --- IT WOULD BE NICE TO SEE A STATEMENT FROM BMW CORPORATE THEMSELVES!!! -- NOT SOME STEALERSHIP OR OFTER-MARKET CRAP SPAM POST JUNK OFF ANOTHER FORUM.

The only benefit I can see to sandblasting (walnut shell or otherwise) to improve efficiency in an engine, would be to clean out the carbon buildup in the intake BEFORE the valves ONLY IF you have had long term excess soot problems combined with neglect. Not to do some elaborate thing to try to clean out the inside of the cylinders themselves. ISX engines just like other EGR engine DO GET carbon buildup in the intake manifold all the way up to the valves in the head when they have long term soot problems. Doing a thorough job of removing the intake manifold, IFSM, ECM, and everything else in the way, gaining access to the intake valves at the head, then sand-blasting them with a soft material to remove all the carbon and soot buildup, if it is bad, would NOT be a bad thing as long as someone was careful to NOT blast cylinders with open valves. I.E. remioving all the rockers to ensure all valves are closed.

This would also mean that the engine had to have suffered excess soot problems in the intake for a long time. Lack of proper EGR maintenance, EGR cooler leaking and making buildup, etc. --- But this leads to a better solution...

I would consider sand-blasting the intake to an engine an extreme measure with risk, to be done ONLY AFTER long term excess abuse and neglect has set in,.. and NOT some elaborate gimmik as they claim on all the Internet sites to "improve fuel mileage" kind of crap! -- I have seen some engines, especially behind the ECM mounting plate and gasket get large amounts of carbon and soot buildup around cylinder #1 and #2, especially, that had reduced air flow,.. but it was ONLY BECAUSE of severe long term neglect, long term soot problems,.. and/or long term EGR cooler leaking problems.

It sounds like a very elaborate thing to go through to get rid of excess soot build-up in the intake,.. when solving the problems correctly by fixing THE EXCESS SOOT PROBLEMS would still be the proper way to keep problems like that from happening. ALSO, usually, by solving the soot problems,.. The intake will clean itself up all on its own after a while anyways. This is due to the normal processes of air and moisture going into the engine as it runs.

[74bassman]

As a Jet engine mech in Navy, we used walnut shells to cleaned the engine on SH-60B. Which uses a GE turbo shaft engine. We would throw the grounded up shells into the intake on the engine. The engine was in a windmill state, meaning that air was going thru the entire engine, but no fuel. The shells would clean the compressor blades and the turbine blades before exiting. Then we would actually wash the engine with soap and water in the same manner. I don't know if I would actually uses walnut media on a motor that was running, but I would use it on parts that needed cleaning. I have a media cleaner that i uses to clean the brass for my ammo, before i reload the cartridge. I would used this and my sonic cleaner for parts with soot buildup. I might even try with a sensor.

[in2trux]

Yeah, walnut shells getting hammered into valve seats.
No substitute for doing it when the head is off.

[Hammerhead]

I would have to be pretty desperate to walnut shell blast my intake.
IF I was to consider doing this procedure, I'd take it one step further than what Rawze was describing and back off the adjustment of the valves of every cylinder completely and remove the crossheads. That's the only way I could convince myself that all the valves are closed and I shouldn't knock carbon or shell debris accidentally into any of the cylinders.
I'd vacuum out the ports after, before I blew them out with compressed air. I'd be pretty leery of getting something up a valve guide, possible wedging a valve open or closed, so I'd probably do v/g seals after the blasting, and while the old seal was removed I'd blow air down the valve guide before reinstalling the new seals.
This may sound extreme, but the contamination risks of this procedure worry me. I think I'd only perform this as a last option with plans or expectations of an inframe...but I think anybody seriously considering this option is probably in dire straights and can't absorb the financial hit of said inframe, so they shouldn't take any chances and take all of these precautions seriously.

[74bassman]

I would only do it if the head was off the engine, and just as a cleaning procedure. I was kinda thinking of doing this to the tube on the side of the motor, ( the one that says hot) and other parts that might have a soot build up. The parts would be off the motor.

[awe504]

Hello, the engine is a ISM 410. It has only has 215k, but has 15k hrs. So needless to say it idles a lot. It has been to 2 different dealers and $20k later still having the same problem. So it has been handed off to me. I believe a combination of leaking EGR valve (tested), valve stem seals (verified), and clogged CCV filter (possibly NEVER changed) and plugged doser injector (verified) and original IMAP sensor (clogged completely) have contributed to the problem. I dont understand how 2 different shops and $20k later it has the original IMAP is still installed. But I digress. The issue now is all the soot on the intake. I removed the manifold and verified bad stem seals. The intake is coated with VERY heavy soot. 1/8" - 1/4" I am thinking of blasting with a walnut shells. I feel like it definitely has to be cleaned to prevent a comeback. I work on BMWs and this is their recommended method. I know Rawze wanted to see some verification.

BMW TSB
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I have read past posts debating cleaning methods for soot, and it seemed the consensus is that it is better left alone unless the head is off. I am replacing valve stem seals so I will have the entire valvetrain out and I will know for sure all valves are closed. And this method applies vacuum while blasting to keep dust to a minimum. I was planning on doing it before I replace the stem seals. I suppose I am asking for opinions from the MOST knowledgeable thinktank on the subject.